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Thread: Lawsuit seeks to take 'so help me God' out of inaugural

  1. #31
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    Re: Lawsuit seeks to take 'so help me God' out of inaugural

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    Sure it does, the consitution does not recognize the Christian God as the Authority.
    Doesn't change the meaning of the term establish or establishment.


    Yes, but in our nation the Christian God does not rule. We allow Homosexuality to exist. That is against the Christian God. We allow Gay Marriage for states that choose it, that is against the Christian God. We allow adultry to exist, that is against the Christian God. We allow divorce for ANY REASON, that is against the Christian God.

    The Christian God does not rule America, this fact cannot be disputed.
    Your not addressing the actual point.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  2. #32
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    Re: Lawsuit seeks to take 'so help me God' out of inaugural

    Quote Originally Posted by Lachean View Post
    An establishment is a NOUN, and "congress shall make no law respecting" a SINGLE ONE, I don't understand how you could be confused by such simple language.
    I'm not. Congress can't make a law setting up a state church or removing in the case of state level ones.


    You should really read the letters to the Danbury Baptists describing the intent of the first amendment, you might be shocked that you have been so gravely mislead by whoever told you that heap of lies.
    Jefferson wasn't even in the country to my knowledge.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  3. #33
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    Re: Lawsuit seeks to take 'so help me God' out of inaugural

    Quote Originally Posted by Lachean View Post
    To attack the person is NOT attacking their argument.
    So? When I made my lunch today I was not attacking your argument, not everything is. As long as it is not all I have got then it is fine.

    And the LOGIC behind your argument was that my position was based on wining.
    No, that is was a part a of whining.

    Personal attacks are not relevant and are rude in a debate, if you cannot debate someone who disagrees with you without vemon, it shows the weakness of your position.
    You haven't read much Burke or Swift have you.



    Logic is the basis of all arguments, so the topic is irrelevant. Also you don't have more to offer but assertions.
    At least I understand the English language.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  4. #34
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    Re: Lawsuit seeks to take 'so help me God' out of inaugural

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    I'm not. Congress can't make a law setting up a state church or removing in the case of state level ones.
    If that were true then the 1st amendment would read "congress shall make no laws creating a religious establishment."

    But it doesn't, it says "respecting an establishment of Religion."

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    Jefferson wasn't even in the country to my knowledge.
    Relevance?
    Last edited by Spartacus FPV; 01-02-09 at 12:37 AM.
    Haymarket's "support" of the 2nd Amendment, a right he believes we never had.
    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    no. You cannot lose rights you do not have in the first place. There is no such thing as the right to have any weapon of your choice regardless of any other consideration. It simply does not exist.

  5. #35
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    Re: Lawsuit seeks to take 'so help me God' out of inaugural

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    So? When I made my lunch today I was not attacking your argument, not everything is. As long as it is not all I have got then it is fine.

    No, that is was a part a of whining.

    You haven't read much Burke or Swift have you.

    At least I understand the English language.
    More insults and less reason, you truly are revealing the weakness of your position. And now appeals to authority? You're just covered in logical fallacies. And I have nothing to gain from listening to you it seems

    If you did understand English properly, you would know what it means to not be able to "respect an establishment of religion" with any law.

    This whole tangent is irrelevant and a waste of time, I already said I don't think an oath constitutes a violation of the Separation of Church and State.

    You want to argue that there is no separation, which totally misses the point of the topic.
    Last edited by Spartacus FPV; 01-02-09 at 12:39 AM.
    Haymarket's "support" of the 2nd Amendment, a right he believes we never had.
    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    no. You cannot lose rights you do not have in the first place. There is no such thing as the right to have any weapon of your choice regardless of any other consideration. It simply does not exist.

  6. #36
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    Re: Lawsuit seeks to take 'so help me God' out of inaugural

    Quote Originally Posted by Lachean View Post
    If that were true then the 1st amendment would read "congress shall make no laws creating a religious establishment."
    No it wouldn't because the states could have religious establisments. It says establishments, the terms has a clear English meaning and one which was even clearer at the time.

    For instance from Burke's Reflections only a couple of years later.

    we are resolved to keep an established church, an established monarchy, an established aristocracy, and an established democracy, each in the degree it exists, and in no greater. I shall show you presently how much of each of these we possess.


    Relevance?
    Your arguments rests on a letter from Jefferson.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  7. #37
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    Re: Lawsuit seeks to take 'so help me God' out of inaugural

    Quote Originally Posted by Lachean View Post
    More insults and less reason, you truly are revealing the weakness of your position. And now appeals to authority? You're just covered in logical fallacies. And I have nothing to gain from listening to you it seems
    Ah running away. I really have you rattled.

    Athiests are always quick to run.

    If you did understand English properly, you would know what it means to not be able to "respect an establishment of religion" with any law.
    Indeed it means setting up a state church, that is what the term establishment means. The last time I looked what you think is a dubious word order is not enough to change the very meaning of English words.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  8. #38
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    Re: Lawsuit seeks to take 'so help me God' out of inaugural

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    No it wouldn't because the states could have religious establisments. It says establishments, the terms has a clear English meaning and one which was even clearer at the time.

    For instance from Burke's Reflections only a couple of years later.

    we are resolved to keep an established church, an established monarchy, an established aristocracy, and an established democracy, each in the degree it exists, and in no greater. I shall show you presently how much of each of these we possess.

    Your arguments rests on a letter from Jefferson.
    Wrong, they rest on plain language. I don't know why the term "respecting an establishment of religion" is so difficult for you, but I no longer care either.

    Why should I waste time spoon feeding you information when you're going to be so nasty, go take a constitutional law class.
    Haymarket's "support" of the 2nd Amendment, a right he believes we never had.
    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    no. You cannot lose rights you do not have in the first place. There is no such thing as the right to have any weapon of your choice regardless of any other consideration. It simply does not exist.

  9. #39
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    Re: Lawsuit seeks to take 'so help me God' out of inaugural

    Quote Originally Posted by Lachean View Post
    Wrong, they rest on plain language. I don't know why the term "respecting an establishment of religion" is so difficult for you, but I no longer care either.

    Why should I waste time spoon feeding you information when you're going to be so nasty, go take a constitutional law class.
    But in plain English religious establishment means a state church, particularly in the 18th century. What don't you understand about this?

    Established church - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    An established church is a church officially sanctioned and supported by the government of a country, e.g. the Church of England and the Church of Scotland in the United Kingdom. Such a sanction is discouraged in some countries, such as the United States, where this is covered by the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment.
    Last edited by Wessexman; 01-02-09 at 12:45 AM.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

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    Re: Lawsuit seeks to take 'so help me God' out of inaugural

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    Ah running away. I really have you rattled.

    Athiests are always quick to run.
    Rattled? Don't flatter yourself, its called BOREDOM. But if telling yourself that I ran away from your arguments rather than your disgusting character makes you feel better, don't let me stop you. Nor can I stop you from pretending that rudeness is justifiable.

    Yeah, you totally stumped me logically! And your logic behind "I insulted you because of what you haven't even said yet" is... to put it bluntly... unbelievable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    Indeed it means setting up a state church, that is what the term establishment means. The last time I looked what you think is a dubious word order is not enough to change the very meaning of English words.
    I don't regard the very clear language of the 1st amendment as dubious.
    Haymarket's "support" of the 2nd Amendment, a right he believes we never had.
    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    no. You cannot lose rights you do not have in the first place. There is no such thing as the right to have any weapon of your choice regardless of any other consideration. It simply does not exist.

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