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Thread: Lawsuit seeks to take 'so help me God' out of inaugural

  1. #21
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    Re: Lawsuit seeks to take 'so help me God' out of inaugural

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    God is not the backbone of America, the Constitution is. The fact you are quoting the constitution says just that.
    I must say that is hilarious coming from a liberal, most treat the constitution as mere guidelines to remade at their whim.

    Your post ignores the issue over the fact the term establish means setting up a state church.
    Last edited by Wessexman; 01-02-09 at 12:14 AM.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

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    Re: Lawsuit seeks to take 'so help me God' out of inaugural

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    I would have debated with you...
    Somehow I heard "No! You're a stupid head."

    First of all, I said "ad-hominem" AFTER your post, so you cannot chronologically use it as an excuse for rude behavior.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    I would have debated with you if you hadn't used the term ad-hominem. This is a politics board, we are discussing society and men not natural sciences, that certainly means people can and sometimes should be attacked at times.
    WRONG, this is a DEBATE forum ON politics, and in debate the logical fallacies of your opponents argument are EXACTLY what one should say. If you regard people pointing out fallacies as improper in a debate, you don't understand what it means to argue that something is true.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    You athiests do love to whinge don't you.
    If you regard respect for the constitution as whining, you're only repeatedly proving how wasted rationality and appeals to patriotism are on you.
    Last edited by Spartacus FPV; 01-02-09 at 12:18 AM.
    Haymarket's "support" of the 2nd Amendment, a right he believes we never had.
    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    no. You cannot lose rights you do not have in the first place. There is no such thing as the right to have any weapon of your choice regardless of any other consideration. It simply does not exist.

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    Re: Lawsuit seeks to take 'so help me God' out of inaugural

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    The first amendment says establish which in all normal usage in this context means set up a state church like the the CoE, it doesn't mean removing all references to Xtianity from the state.

    Your post ignores the issue over the fact the term establish means setting up a state church.
    No it says ESTABLISHMENT, please go read your constitution before you go around insulting people.

    Ask yourself why the founders did not want congress to pass laws respecting any establishment of religion.
    Haymarket's "support" of the 2nd Amendment, a right he believes we never had.
    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    no. You cannot lose rights you do not have in the first place. There is no such thing as the right to have any weapon of your choice regardless of any other consideration. It simply does not exist.

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    Re: Lawsuit seeks to take 'so help me God' out of inaugural

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    I must say that is hilarious coming to a liberal, most treat the constitution as mere guidelines to remade at their whim.

    Your post ignores the issue over the fact the term establish means setting up a state church.
    My post mean exactly as it is, in America the Constitution is the backbone, not God. We are secular as a government.

    If the Christian God were the backbone, we would have in our consitution to not allow any other worship of a God(s) other than the Christian God.

    This is not the case. God does not rule America.

  5. #25
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    Re: Lawsuit seeks to take 'so help me God' out of inaugural

    Quote Originally Posted by Lachean View Post

    WRONG, this is a DEBATE forum ON politics, and in debate the logical fallacies of your opponents argument are EXACTLY what one should say. If you regard people pointing out fallacies as improper in a debate, you don't understand what it means to argue that something is true.
    Ad hominem is not a logical fallacy unless one is using it in the place of arguments. If it is used alongside them it is just a colourful additions like icing or spices. Again we aren't discussing astronomy but politics and society, one can certainly attack the viewpoints of others as long as he has more to offer.


    If you regard respect for the constitution as whining, you're only repeatedly proving how wasted rationality and appeals to patriotism are on you.
    What respect? You are trying to twist words.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

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    Re: Lawsuit seeks to take 'so help me God' out of inaugural

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    My post mean exactly as it is, in America the Constitution is the backbone, not God. We are secular as a government.
    But that has little relevance here to the constitutionally of the use of god.

    If the Christian God were the backbone, we would have in our consitution to not allow any other worship of a God(s) other than the Christian God.

    This is not the case. God does not rule America.
    Actually your point doesn't follow. England is a Christian nations with an established church but other gods may be worshipped. To be a Christian nation you don't have to ban other religions.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

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    Re: Lawsuit seeks to take 'so help me God' out of inaugural

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    Ad hominem is not a logical fallacy unless one is using it in the place of arguments. If it is used alongside them it is just a colourful additions like icing or spices.
    To attack the person is NOT attacking their argument. And the LOGIC behind your argument was that my position was based on wining.

    Personal attacks are not relevant and are rude in a debate, if you cannot debate someone who disagrees with you without vemon, it shows the weakness of your position.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    Again we aren't discussing astronomy but politics and society, one can certainly attack the viewpoints of others as long as he has more to offer.
    Logic is the basis of all arguments, so the topic is irrelevant. Also you don't have more to offer but assertions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    What respect? You are trying to twist words.
    Yeah, its me who is trying to twist words And its you who didn't just claim that you justified your rude remarks by a post I made AFTER THEM.

    You called my respect for the first amendment "whining" did you not?
    Last edited by Spartacus FPV; 01-02-09 at 12:25 AM.
    Haymarket's "support" of the 2nd Amendment, a right he believes we never had.
    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    no. You cannot lose rights you do not have in the first place. There is no such thing as the right to have any weapon of your choice regardless of any other consideration. It simply does not exist.

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    Re: Lawsuit seeks to take 'so help me God' out of inaugural

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    But that has little relevance here to the constitutionally of the use of god.
    Sure it does, the consitution does not recognize the Christian God as the Authority.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    Actually your point doesn't follow. England is a Christian nations with an established church but other gods may be worshipped. To be a Christian nation you don't have to ban other religions.
    Yes, but in our nation the Christian God does not rule. We allow Homosexuality to exist. That is against the Christian God. We allow Gay Marriage for states that choose it, that is against the Christian God. We allow adultry to exist, that is against the Christian God. We allow divorce for ANY REASON, that is against the Christian God.

    The Christian God does not rule America, this fact cannot be disputed.

  9. #29
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    Re: Lawsuit seeks to take 'so help me God' out of inaugural

    Quote Originally Posted by Lachean View Post
    No it says ESTABLISHMENT, please go read your constitution before you go around insulting people.

    Ask yourself why the founders did not want congress to pass laws respecting any establishment of religion.
    Establish is the verb. A religious establishment is a state church like the church of England.

    Hence antidisestablishmentarianism is about stopping the disestablishment of the Church of England.

    The first amendment was added due to pressure from the anti-federalists like the whole bill of rights, they were actually worried about the lack of references to God in the constitution. They were more worried about the threat to influence of religion on the gov't that the constitution might bring about. The amendment is about limiting federal power that is all. Check out Storing's What the Anti-federalists were for.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

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    Re: Lawsuit seeks to take 'so help me God' out of inaugural

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    Establish is the verb. A religious establishment is a state church like the church of England.

    Hence antidisestablishmentarianism is about stopping the disestablishment of the Church of England.
    An establishment is a NOUN, and "congress shall make no law respecting" a SINGLE "establishment of religion", I don't understand how you could be confused by such simple language.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    The first amendment was added due to pressure from the anti-federalists like the whole bill of rights, they were actually worried about the lack of references to God in the constitution. They were more worried about the threat to influence of religion on the gov't that the constitution might bring about. The amendment is about limiting federal power that is all. Check out Storing's What the Anti-federalists were for.
    You should really read the letters to the Danbury Baptists describing the intent of the first amendment, you might be shocked that you have been so gravely mislead.

    Also I would like you to address how its possible that you justified your rude behavior because I said something AFTER THE FACT. Are you psychic? Did you know I was going to say "ad-hominem"?
    Last edited by Spartacus FPV; 01-02-09 at 12:31 AM.
    Haymarket's "support" of the 2nd Amendment, a right he believes we never had.
    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    no. You cannot lose rights you do not have in the first place. There is no such thing as the right to have any weapon of your choice regardless of any other consideration. It simply does not exist.

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