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Thread: 2009 starting off with a bang: IDF kills top Hamas terror sheikh Rayyan

  1. #21
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    Re: 2009 starting off with a bang: IDF kills top Hamas terror sheikh Rayyan

    Quote Originally Posted by shiznit770 View Post
    So this is what happens when you "pick a side"...
    It is part of the package, yes.

    Perhaps another time I would state it with more elegance, but frankly, I just don't have the patience any more.

    Being free, and trying to support some modicum of justice in the world means getting your hands dirty, and occasionally bloody. I don't like it. I'd rather it were different. But the fact is that this is how it is done, and I have no more tolerance for people who believe that sublime thought will deter committed evil.

    So yes, while I don't celebrate the death of an individual as a person, I certainly celebrate their death of some as a force.


    Stated with minimal elegance, I could mourn their lost potential and regret their decision to embrace murder for personal aggrandizement, but I will support their extermination in preference to the more or less innocent.

    Sadly, this can be part of what it means to pick a side. And if you do not, then you simply shift the burden of your part in the fight to others. You cannot however shift your responsibility.

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    Re: 2009 starting off with a bang: IDF kills top Hamas terror sheikh Rayyan

    Quote Originally Posted by creativedreams View Post
    Does the civilian population support what Hamas is doing?
    Pretty much so, by all accounts I've ever heard.

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    Re: 2009 starting off with a bang: IDF kills top Hamas terror sheikh Rayyan

    Quote Originally Posted by Oftencold View Post
    It is part of the package, yes.

    Perhaps another time I would state it with more elegance, but frankly, I just don't have the patience any more.

    Being free, and trying to support some modicum of justice in the world means getting your hands dirty, and occasionally bloody. I don't like it. I'd rather it were different. But the fact is that this is how it is done, and I have no more tolerance for people who believe that sublime thought will deter committed evil.

    So yes, while I don't celebrate the death of an individual as a person, I certainly celebrate their death of some as a force.


    Stated with minimal elegance, I could mourn their lost potential and regret their decision to embrace murder for personal aggrandizement, but I will support their extermination in preference to the more or less innocent.

    Sadly, this can be part of what it means to pick a side. And if you do not, then you simply shift the burden of your part in the fight to others. You cannot however shift your responsibility.
    We're on a debate forum and freedom is precisely the reason you shouldn't "pick a side". By limiting your view to one side you're wasting your freedom and becoming a part of the problem.

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    Re: 2009 starting off with a bang: IDF kills top Hamas terror sheikh Rayyan

    Quote Originally Posted by shiznit770 View Post
    We're on a debate forum and freedom is precisely the reason you shouldn't "pick a side". By limiting your view to one side you're wasting your freedom and becoming a part of the problem.
    Astounding.

    How, prithee, dost one debate, yet picketh not a side?

    One who taketh not a cause, is a spectator, or serf, awaiting the time they they becometh a victim.

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    Re: 2009 starting off with a bang: IDF kills top Hamas terror sheikh Rayyan

    Quote Originally Posted by Oftencold View Post
    Astounding.

    How, prithee, dost one debate, yet picketh not a side?

    One who taketh not a cause, is a spectator, or serf, awaiting the time they they becometh a victim.
    I spoke of "picking a side" in the context that you described it. Choosing a faction and then siding with it in every aspect of the situation. Perhaps your "choosing a side" works for you because you can only see the debate as Israel vs Palestine?

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    Re: 2009 starting off with a bang: IDF kills top Hamas terror sheikh Rayyan

    Quote Originally Posted by shiznit770 View Post
    I spoke of "picking a side" in the context that you described it. Choosing a faction and then siding with it in every aspect of the situation. Perhaps your "choosing a side" works for you because you can only see the debate as Israel vs Palestine?
    No, the debate is what to do with unruly subhuman pigs who consistently fire rockets into Israeli neighborhoods.

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    Re: 2009 starting off with a bang: IDF kills top Hamas terror sheikh Rayyan

    Quote Originally Posted by shiznit770 View Post
    I spoke of "picking a side" in the context that you described it. Choosing a faction and then siding with it in every aspect of the situation. Perhaps your "choosing a side" works for you because you can only see the debate as Israel vs Palestine?
    I look at it that way, because the Palestinians look at it that way, or in even more extreme ways that don't even admit the possibility of defeat.

    This is something vital to understand: the nature of the conflict, and the likelihood of peace without crushing defeat for one side is generally in the hands of the aggressor.

    As I accept reality, I accept the nature of the conflict that benighted people have chosen.

    Do I think that the Israelis are innocent? Of course not. But I see them as being vastly, immensely less culpable. If I do not pick a side, then I condone the victimization of the mildly (relatively) guilty and largely blameless by the murderous and genocidal.

    Neutrality is a luxury for children in such affairs.

    Tell me, are you neural in matters of racial discrimination in America, or in the sexual exploitation of children? Or do you think that people should pick sides in only some conflicts and not others?
    Last edited by Oftencold; 01-02-09 at 11:18 AM.

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    Re: 2009 starting off with a bang: IDF kills top Hamas terror sheikh Rayyan

    Quote Originally Posted by Oftencold View Post
    I look at it that way, because the Palestinians look at it that way, or in even more extreme ways that don't even admit the possibility of defeat.

    This is something vital to understand: the nature of the conflict, and the likelihood of peace without crushing defeat for one side is generally in the hands of the aggressor.

    As I accept reality, I accept the nature of the conflict that benighted people have chosen.

    Do I think that the Israelis are innocent? Of course not. But I see them as being vastly, immensely less culpable. If I do not pick a side, then I condone the victimization of the mildly (relatively) guilty and largely blameless by the murderous and genocidal.

    Neutrality is a luxury for children in such affairs.

    Tell me, are you neural in matters of racial discrimination in America, or in the sexual exploitation of children? Or do you think that people should pick sides in only some conflicts and not others?
    Suggesting Israel is as clear an issue as those you've indicated is childish and offensive. Are you so far deluded on the issue that you think anyone who sympathizes with innocent Palestinians is a pedophile?

    There's no need to pick sides on issues so morally perverse. Rational, educated people will always come to the same conclusion. If you must simplify these issues by taking a side instead of coming to an independent thought, then what exactly is your reason for debating here?

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    Re: 2009 starting off with a bang: IDF kills top Hamas terror sheikh Rayyan

    Quote Originally Posted by shiznit770 View Post
    Suggesting Israel is as clear an issue as those you've indicated is childish and offensive. Are you so far deluded on the issue that you think anyone who sympathizes with innocent Palestinians is a pedophile?

    There's no need to pick sides on issues so morally perverse. Rational, educated people will always come to the same conclusion. If you must simplify these issues by taking a side instead of coming to an independent thought, then what exactly is your reason for debating here?
    You completely gloss over the fact that he may have independently come to the conclusion that led him to take a side. I know I did...I independently decided that Palestinian proclivity for breaking truces and attacking civilians is the side I want to be against.

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    Re: 2009 starting off with a bang: IDF kills top Hamas terror sheikh Rayyan

    Quote Originally Posted by shiznit770 View Post
    Rational, educated people will always come to the same conclusion.
    Rational, educated people are often bigots, and have frequently been imprisoned as pedophiles, so it is rather difficult to give credence to your argument here. You may wish to try again.

    However, I believe I've just about finished trying for the nonce to show you the need for the upright and bright to choose a side in this conflict, as you simply refuse to see.

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