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Thread: Possible ceasefire in Gaza

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    Re: Possible ceasefire in Gaza

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    Bub,

    I have not yet seen the exact text of the Quartet's request. However, if the Quartet has retreated from the three conditions it has previously set forth, I believe Israel should not accept the ceasefire request.
    a ceasefire is temporary, it would be a truce. That would be the first step before negociation with the Hamas. They could negociate the end of the blockade vs. end of rocket launches.

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    Re: Possible ceasefire in Gaza

    Quote Originally Posted by bub View Post
    Barak seems to agree with the French ceasefire idea

    le fil info - lesoir.be
    well thank god we have the good guidance of the Illinois state Senator

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    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    How the hell did you just tie in a retroactive reparative measure with a proactive preventative measure. Not even close to being the same thing.

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    Re: Possible ceasefire in Gaza

    Quote Originally Posted by DeeJayH View Post
    well thank god we have the good guidance of the Illinois state Senator
    Nothing like a fish out of water.

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    Re: Possible ceasefire in Gaza

    Quote Originally Posted by bub View Post
    a ceasefire is temporary, it would be a truce. That would be the first step before negociation with the Hamas. They could negociate the end of the blockade vs. end of rocket launches.
    Should such terms be offered, Israel should reject them. Such terms would favor Hamas.

    In effect, Hamas would gain an end of the restrictions simply from its having resorted to firing rockets on Israel. In any negotiation, Israel should seek nothing less than fulfillment of the Madrid Quartet's terms (recognition of Israel, abandoning of violence by Hamas, and respect for existing diplomatic agreements by Hamas), along with a verifiable regime for Hamas' returning the Gaza Strip to the Palestinian Authority and disarming, and the release of Cpl. Shalit. Any prolonged ceasefire should be conditioned on such terms.

    Hamas should not benefit from its having resorted to rocket attacks. Otherwise, Hamas' position will be further strengthened and the position of moderates who might be more inclined to pursue diplomacy weakened.
    Last edited by donsutherland1; 12-30-08 at 06:02 PM.

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    Re: Possible ceasefire in Gaza

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    Should such terms be offered, Israel should reject them. Such terms would favor Hamas.

    In effect, Hamas would gain an end of the restrictions simply from its having resorted to firing rockets on Israel. In any negotiation, Israel should seek nothing less than fulfillment of the Madrid Quartet's terms (recognition of Israel, abandoning of violence by Hamas, and respect for existing diplomatic agreements by Hamas), along with a verifiable regime for Hamas' returning the Gaza Strip to the Palestinian Authority and disarming, and the release of Cpl. Shalit. Any prolonged ceasefire should be conditioned on such terms.

    Hamas should not benefit from its having resorted to rocket attacks. Otherwise, Hamas' position will be further strengthened and the position of moderates who might be more inclined to pursue diplomacy weakened.
    I actually agree with this. Far too many truces have been struck with only half-ass concessions on both sides. A truce without the terms you mentioned will never lead to the much needed peace.

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    Re: Possible ceasefire in Gaza

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    Should such terms be offered, Israel should reject them. Such terms would favor Hamas.

    In effect, Hamas would gain an end of the restrictions simply from its having resorted to firing rockets on Israel. In any negotiation, Israel should seek nothing less than fulfillment of the Madrid Quartet's terms (recognition of Israel, abandoning of violence by Hamas, and respect for existing diplomatic agreements by Hamas), along with a verifiable regime for Hamas' returning the Gaza Strip to the Palestinian Authority and disarming, and the release of Cpl. Shalit. Any prolonged ceasefire should be conditioned on such terms.

    Hamas should not benefit from its having resorted to rocket attacks. Otherwise, Hamas' position will be further strengthened and the position of moderates who might be more inclined to pursue diplomacy weakened.
    I agree with you. But in the short term, we need a simple "emergency" agreement that could be done in 48 hours.

    Then, you are right, a next treaty should include the conditions you cited, along with concessions from Israel too, such as leaving all colonies that are outside the green line. If both parts don't make concessions, it will be impossible to bring peace!
    Last edited by bub; 12-30-08 at 06:14 PM.

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    Re: Possible ceasefire in Gaza

    Quote Originally Posted by bub View Post
    I agree with you. But in the short term, we need a simple "emergency" agreement that could be done in 48 hours.

    Then, you are right, a next treaty should include the conditions you cited, along with concessions from Israel too, such as leaving all colonies that are outside the green line.
    The problem is that such an agreement will likely not be reached after the ceasefire. The time that passes favors Hamas in terms of propaganda and the fading resolve of the Israeli public to support a ground force. I'm not saying the ceasefire is not a good thing, because there's always the chance of a Hamas turn around, but it will be important how Israel responds if an acceptable agreement is not reached.

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    Re: Possible ceasefire in Gaza

    Goobieman asked, quote(IF the reason for the rocket attacks is the blockade, why isnt Hamas hitting Egypt with rockets?)

    The reason for the rocket attacks is that Hamas want Israel destroyed as a Jewish State.
    This is their stated intention, it is the reason why they refuse to honor any previous agreements made by previous Palestinian Governments.
    A Truce is pointless, if Israel make such an agreement with Hamas, it will be seen as a victory by Hamas and as another defeat of Israel, the first defeat being their abortive fight with Hezbollah in Lebanon.
    Either Israel kills Hamas within Gaza (to be honest they can never defeat Hamas worldwide) or they will continue to be bombarded with rockets and worse.

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    Re: Possible ceasefire in Gaza

    According to Yigal Palmor, Israeli minister, there could be a permanent truce. The condition is that they want guarantees that Hamas stops launching rockets.

    They have however rejected the French proposal of ceasefire.

    Israël envisage une trêve permanente - lesoir.be

    Le Figaro - International : Israël prêt à de «longues semaines d'action»

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    Re: Possible ceasefire in Gaza

    Quote Originally Posted by jujuman13 View Post
    Either Israel kills Hamas within Gaza (to be honest they can never defeat Hamas worldwide) or they will continue to be bombarded with rockets and worse.
    Hamas was elected. Which means that a majority of Palestinians support them. If you use the military way, you'd have to kill all of them, and doing so will make Hamas gain even more support. That's why it won't work.

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