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Thread: Premarital Abstinence Pledges Ineffective, Study Finds

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    Re: Premarital Abstinence Pledges Ineffective, Study Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by Gibberish View Post
    No I want teachers to educate on protective measures for avoiding STD's.
    And protective measure for avoiding influenza too I hope. I'm sure if washing hands were encouraged, that might have an effect no? It would save kids from getting sick, save doctors the time, and save money on bills. As said, we don't wash our hands enough.

    Bleeding or sores and it is a relevant risk. Herpes would be the most relevant to kissing.
    Again, I think bleeding or sore gums would be hard to miss. I can't see a girl saying "Ouch, I cut my gums...kiss me". Though...I could see a guy though...
    Last edited by DarkWizard12; 01-02-09 at 03:19 AM.

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    Re: Premarital Abstinence Pledges Ineffective, Study Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkWizard12 View Post
    And protective measure for avoiding influenza too I hope. I'm sure if washing hands were encouraged, that might have an effect no? It would save kids from getting sick, save doctors the time, and save money on bills. As said, we don't wash our hands enough.
    Protection against the flu isn't the objective of Sex-ed. Protection against STD's is. And again, education on the flu and the reason to wash your hands is learnt at a much much younger age. Repeating it at this stage of education would be redundant and a waste of time.


    Quote Originally Posted by DarkWizard12 View Post
    Again, I think bleeding or sore gums would be hard to miss. I can't see a girl saying "Ouch, I cut my gums...kiss me". Though...I could see a guy though...
    It's not that it is missed or not. It's that they understand that having such and performing certain acts could lead to transfer of diseases.
    Last edited by Gibberish; 01-02-09 at 03:28 AM.
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    Re: Premarital Abstinence Pledges Ineffective, Study Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by Lachean View Post
    Its no paradox, its the implication of cause and effect. If you understand the cause, you understand the effect of its absence.

    I believe that this is not actually what you want taught, I think you want abstinence taught as some kind of a morally superior alternative. But I have never heard a valid justification for abstinence other than "because I don't WANT to."



    Its implied, so its part of the picture inherently. How has it ever been discouraged in sex ed?

    Do you mean to say that people are more likely to have sex if they know it can be done in a consequence free environment?
    Oh sigh.

    You think I'm one of those judgemental christian types aren't you?

    Me: "Hey, dudes, maybe we should teach or...maybe...like...suggest to students that abstaining from sexual behaviour is the only 100% effective way from avoiding STD's, beyond blood-transfer and drugs, and stuff."
    You: "No, abstinence is not morally-superiour to condom-use. And, no again, just because.
    Me: "WTF"?

    I'm done discussing this with you. The fact that you would make that judgement based on...well...nothing, should learn some reading skills.

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    Re: Premarital Abstinence Pledges Ineffective, Study Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by Gibberish View Post
    Protection against the flu isn't the objective of Sex-ed. Protection against STD's is.
    Yes, STD is a well...disease no?

    So, if we are going to have sex-ed programs in schools to prevent one disease, why not programs in schools to prevent the spreading of other diseases?

    It's not that it is missed or not. It's that they understand that having such and performing certain acts could lead to transfer of diseases.
    Then tell them what can get you an STD then. Kissing, however, is not one. Unless of course, bleeding gums. Which, you did not mention originally.

    Can you get AIDS from. . . ?

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    Re: Premarital Abstinence Pledges Ineffective, Study Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkWizard12 View Post
    Yes, STD is a well...disease no?

    So, if we are going to have sex-ed programs in schools to prevent one disease, why not programs in schools to prevent the spreading of other diseases?
    Why not make all students get their phD in medicine? Because it's relevant or required for basic sexual education.


    Quote Originally Posted by DarkWizard12 View Post
    Then tell them what can get you an STD then. Kissing, however, is not one. Unless of course, bleeding gums. Which, you did not mention originally.

    Can you get AIDS from. . . ?
    Tell them what can get you an STD and how to protect themselves from getting STDs.

    You do know there are more STDs then AIDS right? There are a number ofthem that can be transmitted through saliva, bleeding or canker sores in the mouth.
    Sexually transmitted disease - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Last edited by Gibberish; 01-02-09 at 03:42 AM.
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    Re: Premarital Abstinence Pledges Ineffective, Study Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkWizard12 View Post
    Oh sigh.

    You think I'm one of those judgemental christian types aren't you?

    Me: "Hey, dudes, maybe we should teach or...maybe...like...suggest to students that abstaining from sexual behaviour is the only 100% effective way from avoiding STD's, beyond blood-transfer and drugs, and stuff."
    You: "No, abstinence is not morally-superiour to condom-use. And, no again, just because.
    Me: "WTF"?

    I'm done discussing this with you.
    That's not quite how it went, and you gave me reason to believe you were making moral value judgements when you claimed "if everyone waited until they were married" and used the word "pleasure" with contempt. Besides, many other posts of yours on theology that I've seen are evidence that supports my belief as well; not that they are relevant.

    However, if you're done you're done. But the fact remains that abstinence is not 100% effective, abstinence pledges are in fact ineffective and cause worse results. Also, people can get HPV for example without ever having had sex or contaminated medical products.

    Sure I'll agree that its highly unlikely that a celibate would ever get an STD in their life; I just wouldn't call those years past puberty "living," nor is marriage any protection either, given cheating and the divorce rate.

    Your argument is no more to the point to me than the fact that an indoor cat lives longer than an outdoor cat. Not everyone plans to be married, nor are people deterred by appeals to fear.

    I don't do things for fear of the worst case scenario, that would be a miserable standard for living. You've got to have a better reason for abstinence than the possible negative outcomes of sex...

    You do really how GREAT sex is don't you?

    The fact that you would make that judgement based on...well...nothing, should learn some reading skills.
    I asked you several times the reasons for your word choices with such contempt, you ignored them. You left me with no reason but to speculate why "marriage" as an institution is worth the wait.

    Or why "pleasure" is a poor reason. And if you think "nothing" reflects your posting history of being a judgmental Christian, you should really do a search of your posts...

    I have VERY MANY reasons for believing you are how you are. Especially when you talk about "bad Christians" or describe a particular kind of Christianity. Didn't you say that "Well, I tell you, thats not christian. thats baloney" to those who claim that I'm going to hell for my lack of faith?

    Please, help me w/ my reading skills.
    Last edited by Spartacus FPV; 01-02-09 at 04:03 AM.
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    Re: Premarital Abstinence Pledges Ineffective, Study Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by Gibberish View Post
    Why not make all students get their phD in medicine? Because it's relevant or required for basic sexual education.
    I said disease, not sexual orientation.

    Tell them what can get you an STD and how to protect themselves from getting STDs.

    You do know there are more STDs then AIDS right? There are a number ofthem that can be transmitted through saliva, bleeding or canker sores in the mouth.
    Sexually transmitted disease - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    [/quote]
    IF their gums are bleeding or has sores, etc.

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    Re: Premarital Abstinence Pledges Ineffective, Study Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkWizard12 View Post
    I said disease, not sexual orientation.
    What relevance does that have to the discussion of sexual education?



    Quote Originally Posted by DarkWizard12 View Post
    IF their gums are bleeding or has sores, etc.
    Yes. There are requirements to getting STDs orally, as I stated previously.
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    Re: Premarital Abstinence Pledges Ineffective, Study Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by Gibberish View Post
    What relevance does that have to the discussion of sexual education?
    Ok. One step at a time.

    1. What is the purpose of sex ed?
    Answer: to prevent sexually transmitted diseases

    2. So, should we have OTHER programs in schools to prevent OTHER diseases?
    Yes. There are requirements to getting STDs orally, as I stated previously.
    FINALLY!

    point was, you did not mention it the first time. Thats why I brought it up.

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    Re: Premarital Abstinence Pledges Ineffective, Study Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkWizard12 View Post
    1. What is the purpose of sex ed?
    Answer: to prevent sexually transmitted diseases
    Wrong. It is the purpose to educate on the function of reproduction and the risks involved with practicing sexual based activities. STD's just happen to be one major risk that needs to be addressed. Pregnancy is another.

    One risk that is not discussed is social and mental damage that can possibly occur by having sex. That's not brought up in sex-ed. Should it?

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkWizard12 View Post
    2. So, should we have OTHER programs in schools to prevent OTHER diseases?
    Only if they are relevant. General health class focuses on many sicknesses.

    Should there be a class devoted to surviving the Black Plague, Malaria, Yellow fever, or SARS? I don't think so.

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkWizard12 View Post
    FINALLY!

    point was, you did not mention it the first time. Thats why I brought it up.
    I didn't think I needed to qualify the STD with the requirements. It is still an STD and you can still get it by kissing, which was my original point.
    Last edited by Gibberish; 01-02-09 at 04:39 AM.
    "Gold gets dug out of the ground in Africa, or someplace. Then we melt it down, dig another hole, bury it again and pay people to stand around guarding it. It has no utility. Anyone watching from Mars would be scratching their head."
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