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Thread: Premarital Abstinence Pledges Ineffective, Study Finds

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    Re: Premarital Abstinence Pledges Ineffective, Study Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkWizard12 View Post
    1. So, you want teachers to basically market condoms. Cause, you know thats what you would be doing. Like the commercials, only not as sexy.
    No I want teachers to educate on protective measures for avoiding STD's.

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkWizard12 View Post
    2. No you can't, unless your gums are bleeding. (See: tooth brush) and even then, its a small risk.
    Bleeding or sores and it is a relevant risk. Herpes would be the most relevant to kissing.
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    Re: Premarital Abstinence Pledges Ineffective, Study Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkWizard12 View Post
    I'm sorry, they would be marketing a product, not a brand.
    Alright, your point? I don't care if "this class was brought to you by Durex" so long as they demonstrably reduce the rates of infection/pregnancy.

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkWizard12 View Post
    They actually kind of do. At least with any school with a library with late-charges. It is business (although not a "marketed" business...)
    IMO I don't regard any public service as a "business" and if you do, they sure don't turn a profit. Nor do i see your point even if you were right?

    I regard Universities as a business, and if a paid class on safe sex only taught abstinence, I'd want my money back.

    What does "pleasure" or "business" have to do with "efficacy" and why do you use the words in contempt? As if pleasure were a poor reason to do something safely?

    You do know that people can get certain STD's like HPV without ever having had sex right?
    Last edited by Spartacus FPV; 01-02-09 at 03:01 AM.
    Haymarket's "support" of the 2nd Amendment, a right he believes we never had.
    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    no. You cannot lose rights you do not have in the first place. There is no such thing as the right to have any weapon of your choice regardless of any other consideration. It simply does not exist.

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    Re: Premarital Abstinence Pledges Ineffective, Study Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkWizard12 View Post
    Then you would have to teach them abstinence. Condoms are only 97% effective. It does DECREASE the risk, no mistake about it, and that is worth noting in sex ed. But it is not 100% effective by no means.
    Of course, Abstinence would be stated as the safest measure of all. There is no reason to leave out abstinence or contraceptives from the discussion along with the risk that is still present when using contraceptives vs abstinence.

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkWizard12 View Post
    Who? Who did I say don't get married?
    You didn't. You said "If everyone in the world waited untill they were married and never cheated. The AIDS problem would be virtually nonexistent.".

    Your scenario assumes everyone gets married. There are large numbers of people in the world that never get married so your scenario would never exist even if those people that were going to be married waited and never cheated.
    Last edited by Gibberish; 01-02-09 at 03:02 AM.
    "Gold gets dug out of the ground in Africa, or someplace. Then we melt it down, dig another hole, bury it again and pay people to stand around guarding it. It has no utility. Anyone watching from Mars would be scratching their head."
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    Re: Premarital Abstinence Pledges Ineffective, Study Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by Lachean View Post
    Abstinence only needs to be taught to anyone stupid enough not to get that "if you don't have sex you wont get X" is implied by "people get X through sex."

    EVERYONE who doesn't believe in the stork theory of child birth understands abstinence. There is NO need to teach it, nor does teaching it yield effective results.



    Are you under the assumption that abstinence education is? I don't think you understand how high 97% is, that's a SUBSTANTIAL decrease.
    97% =/= 100%.

    my beef isn't with condoms though. f your going to have sex, use a condom. Its the fact that, thats the only behaviour thats encouraged. Who's telling the kids "Hey kids, condoms are okay but only 97% effective. If you abstain, you'll be in just as good a shape". Hell, I wonder how many condom companies lobby for sex-ed?

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    Re: Premarital Abstinence Pledges Ineffective, Study Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkWizard12 View Post
    97% =/= 100%.

    my beef isn't with condoms though. f your going to have sex, use a condom. Its the fact that, thats the only behaviour thats encouraged. Who's telling the kids "Hey kids, condoms are okay but only 97% effective. If you abstain, you'll be in just as good a shape". Hell, I wonder how many condom companies lobby for sex-ed?
    Um most health classes that talk about contraceptives? I don't think a single person has said don't promote abstinence as a safety measure in Sex-ed. The argument is that it shouldn't be taught as the ONLY safety measure.
    "Gold gets dug out of the ground in Africa, or someplace. Then we melt it down, dig another hole, bury it again and pay people to stand around guarding it. It has no utility. Anyone watching from Mars would be scratching their head."
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    Re: Premarital Abstinence Pledges Ineffective, Study Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by Gibberish View Post
    Of course, Abstinence would be stated as the safest measure of all. There is no reason to leave out abstinence or contraceptives from the discussion along with the risk that is still present when using contraceptives vs abstinence.
    Then I would be alright with that. All too often, abstainence isn't just not part of the picture, its discouraged.

    You didn't. You said "If everyone in the world waited untill they were married and never cheated. The AIDS problem would be virtually nonexistent.".

    Your scenario assumes everyone gets married. There are large numbers of people in the world that never get married so your scenario would never exist even if those people that were going to be married waited and never cheated.
    Well, they would have to get married to have sex then, wouldn't they? Because all the ones that are married, wouldn't cheat.

    Again though, thats hypothetical. Don't like to be christiano-communist utopia :P

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    Re: Premarital Abstinence Pledges Ineffective, Study Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkWizard12 View Post
    97% =/= 100%.
    Yes, and 100% is an irrational expectation

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkWizard12 View Post
    my beef isn't with condoms though. f your going to have sex, use a condom. Its the fact that, thats the only behaviour thats encouraged. Who's telling the kids "Hey kids, condoms are okay but only 97% effective. If you abstain, you'll be in just as good a shape". Hell, I wonder how many condom companies lobby for sex-ed?
    No one. I don't know an educator foolish enough to use the word "only" when describing "97%"

    Nor was anyone in my grade school dumb enough to need to be told this. Do you think people who chose to have sex don't know about abstinence or something?
    Haymarket's "support" of the 2nd Amendment, a right he believes we never had.
    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    no. You cannot lose rights you do not have in the first place. There is no such thing as the right to have any weapon of your choice regardless of any other consideration. It simply does not exist.

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    Re: Premarital Abstinence Pledges Ineffective, Study Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by Gibberish View Post
    Of course, Abstinence would be stated as the safest measure of all. There is no reason to leave out abstinence or contraceptives from the discussion along with the risk that is still present when using contraceptives vs abstinence.
    Then I would be alright with that. All too often, abstainence isn't just not part of the picture, its discouraged.

    You didn't. You said "If everyone in the world waited untill they were married and never cheated. The AIDS problem would be virtually nonexistent.".

    Your scenario assumes everyone gets married. There are large numbers of people in the world that never get married so your scenario would never exist even if those people that were going to be married waited and never cheated.
    Well, they would have to get married to have sex then, wouldn't they? Because all the ones that are married, wouldn't cheat.

    Again though, thats hypothetical. Don't like to be christiano-communist utopia :P

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    Re: Premarital Abstinence Pledges Ineffective, Study Finds

    It is impossible to leave out abstinence if you're explaining the biological mechanics of childbirth. Teaching a cause implies that its absence will negate the outcome.

    The word "abstinence" doesn't even ever need to be mentioned, anyone too dumb to get that are the type to break their abstinence pledge and not use a condom when they do anyways IMO.
    So...we are going to keep in abstinence...by not keeping in abstinence...

    Quite a paradox

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    Re: Premarital Abstinence Pledges Ineffective, Study Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkWizard12 View Post
    So...we are going to keep in abstinence...by not keeping in abstinence...

    Quite a paradox
    Its no paradox, its the implication of cause and effect. If you understand the cause, you understand the effect of its absence.

    I believe that this is not actually what you want taught, I think you want abstinence taught as some kind of a morally superior alternative. But I have never heard a valid justification for abstinence other than "because I don't WANT to."

    Then I would be alright with that. All too often, abstainence isn't just not part of the picture, its discouraged.
    Its implied, so its part of the picture inherently. How has it ever been discouraged in sex ed?

    Do you mean to say that people are more likely to have sex if they know it can be done in a consequence free environment?

    Puberty discourages abstinence, not sex ed.
    Last edited by Spartacus FPV; 01-02-09 at 03:21 AM.
    Haymarket's "support" of the 2nd Amendment, a right he believes we never had.
    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    no. You cannot lose rights you do not have in the first place. There is no such thing as the right to have any weapon of your choice regardless of any other consideration. It simply does not exist.

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