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Israeli air strikes target Gaza

Slainte said:
As Egypt failed to act to reseal the border due to massive popular pressure from its population it was Israel who began heavily pressurising the USA into forcing Egypts hand. As well as taking dirct action with airstrikes.
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So... contrary to your claime, Egypt, not Israel, sealed the border and is a full participant in the blockade.

Egypt is of course complicit in its implemenation, something I have not denied.
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You refused to admit any such thing until pressed, hoping that no on would know better.

However the level of severity, and the power to end it in rests in Israeli hands.
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Egypt fully controls its particpation, including the 'severity' of same.

So, if the blocakde is the real reason behind the rocket attacks, where are the attacks on Egypt?
 
Slainte said:
There are very serious questions about the legitimacy and need for a Zionist state in the 21st century.
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There is NO question, however, about the legitimacy of the existence of the state of Israel.

To demand all such question be removed from the table before negotiations start is unreasonable to the Palestinians.
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Who want nothing more than for Israel to be destroyed.

Hamas has stated repeatedly it is willing to acknoweldge Israel as a reality and work from there. Demanding that they accept the legitimacy of Israel, when most Palestinians obviously do not, is a recipe for another failed peace process.
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So then you admit -- the peace process will fail because the Palestinians will never regognize the legitimacy of Israel's existence
 
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Slainte said:
Not under standard interpretations of international law as Israel refuses to relinquish controll over Gaza's borders, airspace or seaspace. Something I'm sure I've been over with you before!
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Israel controls its own borders as does Egypt. Neither nation allows unfettered access from Gaza. Quite understandable.
 
Goobieman said:
There is NO question, however, about the legitimacy of the existence of the state of Israel.
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Most of the region disagrees!

So then you admit -- the peace process will fail because the Palestinians will never regognize the exictence of Israel.
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Inevitably this thread, like pretty much every other thread on the issue has came down to this!

Shall we say I think that the Israelis still have some convincing to do. In the very long run however I'm starting to believe partition will not work and one state may emerge, most likely a binational one. Maybe all this violence is just making me cynical though.
 
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SgtRock said:
I see no other solution. Can you tell the difference between a member of Hamas dressed in civilian cloths and a civilian? If the Palestinians elected Hamas into power and Hamas breaks ceasefires by attacking Israel what can be done to stop this. Israel is not going to lift the blockade, why should they, it will be used to resupply Hamas with weapons. Israel releases prisoners as a gester of good will and what do the get in return, more rockets.

Do you have a solution to this short of fulfilling the Hamas goal of killing all Israelis? Hamas could have avoided all of this by simply ending there attacks on Israel, its that simple. So if Israel is going to end this once and for all send the Palestinians to there homeland in Jordan and kill anyone who resists. Sounds pretty cold dosn't it? Well it is, War is hell. Hamas asked for war and Israel is giving it to them.

Death to Hamas!!!!
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Ethnic cleansing and killing will not work. Israel will never be able to destroy Hamas militarily no matter what it does. The only solution is to end the occupation by Israel to Palestinian land and guarantee the security and safety of Israel in return. Even Hamas has indicated that it will accept that. The Palestinian people will force it to if they refuse simply by voting them out in the next election.
 
SquareMelon said:
Ethnic cleansing and killing will not work. Israel will never be able to destroy Hamas militarily no matter what it does. The only solution is to end the occupation by Israel to Palestinian land and guarantee the security and safety of Israel in return. Even Hamas has indicated that it will accept that. The Palestinian people will force it to if they refuse simply by voting them out in the next election.
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Neither Hamas nor the Palestinian peopl ehave any interest other than the destruction of Israel. That being said, there is no reason for Israel to negotiate, as there is nothing for Israel to gain in doing so.
 
Slainte said:
Most of the region disagrees!
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Which means nothing.

Inevitably this thread, like pretty much every other thread on the issue has came down to this!
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Actually, its rare that people admit that the palestininans will never recognize the legitimate existence of Israel.
 
bub said:
OK Hamas are ***** and should stop their attacks immediatly. They have violated the ceasefire by launching rockets, and it's normal that Israel tries to kill them (even if that won't bring peace).

However, did you know that the Hamas rockets have killed 1 Israeli and wounded 8 (which is not acceptable) but in 3 days, 51 Palestinian civilians have been killed!

And then when I say that it's not proportionate members say it's BS :shock:

If such a counter attack could bring peace and stop the Hamas, that would be OK, but Israel has already used such methods in the past and the only result was more intifadas and more extremism.
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Blame Hamas. They are responsible for putting civilians in harms way.
 
Vader said:
The attack is getting support because Hamas attacked Israel. Hamas is an out of control terrorist group that needs to be annhilated.

Hamas hides its weapons in civilian areas so Hamas is responsible for the loss of life that occurs as a response to Hamas rocket attacks.

Hamas picked a fight and then got its ass handed to it.
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Did Hamas claim the attacks? Serious question. Or was it a pissed off non-member? Was it a drone? Was it a serial killing Israeli that noone has caught? Was it Hamas? Where you there? Did you see it? Glad you support stuff so rampantly that you never even see.
 
dirtpoorchris said:
Did Hamas claim the attacks? Serious question. Or was it a pissed off non-member? Was it a drone? Was it a serial killing Israeli that noone has caught? Was it Hamas? Where you there? Did you see it? Glad you support stuff so rampantly that you never even see.
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Do you suggest that Israel send in a CSI team to collect evidence, then convene a grnd jury to indict those responsible?
 
dirtpoorchris said:
Did Hamas claim the attacks? Serious question. Or was it a pissed off non-member? Was it a drone? Was it a serial killing Israeli that noone has caught? Was it Hamas? Where you there? Did you see it? Glad you support stuff so rampantly that you never even see.
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I'm Israeli. I've been to Sderot. Are you telling me I didn't see what I did?

Hamas has admitted to rocketing Israel. So has Islamic Jihad.. an offshoot. But even that is immaterial. A government is totally responsible for securing its territory and policing its population.
 
Tashah said:
I'm Israeli. I've been to Sderot. Are you telling me I didn't see what I did?

Hamas has admitted to rocketing Israel. So has Islamic Jihad.. an offshoot. But even that is immaterial. A government is totally responsible for securing its territory and policing its population.
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I mean during the lead up. Im not saying you saw or didn't see anything. But I did ask. Didn't Israel back the Muslim brotherhood and want to see it grow? Nice how now they blame them for ALL and yet they have no responsability in the whole matter. Their press statements are worded very geniously.
 
Tashah said:
Indeed. Thankfully much better than your posts are worded.
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So sue me. Even you have to know by now that mayyyyyybe... Just mayyyybe... I might not exel at such things. But nice come back.

I see. As soon as the PLO is rid of and everyone accepts Hamas as their main body then the Israelis have a HUGE base to attack. To ensure enough CYA juice will be at the ready.
 
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dirtpoorchris said:
So sue me. Even you have to know by now that mayyyyyybe... Just mayyyybe... I might not exel at such things. But nice come back.
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Thanks. You make it easy :2razz:
 
dirtpoorchris said:
I REALLY dont understand why you are talking to me right now then. Just for spite?
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Spite? No.

Accuracy? Yes.

If you post crap, I'll call you on it.

Guaranteed.
 
dirtpoorchris said:
Did Hamas claim the attacks? Serious question. Or was it a pissed off non-member? Was it a drone? Was it a serial killing Israeli that noone has caught? Was it Hamas? Where you there? Did you see it? Glad you support stuff so rampantly that you never even see.
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1. The attacks WERE carried out by Hamas terrorists.

2. The Hamas imbeciles were REPEATEDLY WARNED to knock their **** off.

3. Hamas morons continued to attack.

4. Hamas got what they deserved.
 
dirtpoorchris said:
Did Hamas claim the attacks? Serious question. Or was it a pissed off non-member? Was it a drone? Was it a serial killing Israeli that noone has caught? Was it Hamas? Where you there? Did you see it? Glad you support stuff so rampantly that you never even see.
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Damn, at least give us a warning; it's getting so deep in here, I need my HIP waders!

:rofl
 
Tashah said:
Spite? No.

Accuracy? Yes.

If you post crap, I'll call you on it.

Guaranteed.
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Maybe then you could just awnser. Why did Israel want Hamas in the first place? Why would they want the Muslim Brotherhood to become the government?


Instead. Wait for the Muslim Brotherhood to expand, expand, expand. Then its Blitzkreig time.

I just want to know ONE thing if you are not going to awnser me and prod instead. Are all of Hamas terrorists? Im trying to get a mental picture here. Is it a government body that wishes to be something of a community cop? Does Hamas simply stand for the destruction or dismantling of Israel?
 
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Tashah said:
Spite? No.

Accuracy? Yes.

If you post crap, I'll call you on it.

Guaranteed.
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do you think the IDF can destroy the Hamas?

according to you, what will be the consequences of this attack on Palestinians? (houses destroyed, civilians killed...what are they going to think? Are they going to blame the Hamas, like many posters expect, or are they going to blame everything on the "other side", like many posters do)

and (last question) what are, according to you, the consequences of the blockade on Palestinians?
 
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bub said:
has been briefly eased. It's over now, there are tanks everywhere
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Briefly because of rocket attacks.

then there will never be peace, that's quite simple
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Because groups like Hamas insist on the destruction of Israel. THAT is why there may never be peace.


yes, but self defense must be proportionate. That is not the case. That's why the UN condemns Israel
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Where in Article 51 does it say self defense must be proportionate?

UN rights chief: Israeli force 'disproportionate' - International Herald Tribune
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THat looks like the statement of one official in the UN, not the UN itself.

If someone kicks you, you have the right to kick back, but you don't have the right to kill him with a flamethrower. That's simple to understand, isn't it?
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If they are killing your citizens, you have the right to take out the infrastructure that makes it possible for them to do it so they can't do it again. Israel is WELL WITHIN its rights, whether or not the rest of the world likes it. If they want to stop it, come up with a viable solution that protects the legitimate rights of Israel. Short of that, the Israelis are going to protest their citizens, as is their right.
 
Slainte said:
Hamas offered to renew the cease fire if Israel agreed to loosen the blockade of Gaza. Israel refused this offer, anyone allowed into Gaza can testify to the devestating effect that this blockade has had upon Gaza.
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1. Hamas used any loosening of the blockade to get people into Israel in the past.
2. Egypt maintains an even TIGHTER blockade on Gaza. Why not attack them?
 
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