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Israeli air strikes target Gaza

Then maybe you should give yourself a break for awhile. You have been posting for hours. Maybe take a walk get some air. do something you like to do for awhile and come back later the thread will still be here

Think i may just go out for a while, thanks anyway.
 
No they're just another obnoxious Semitic tribe with delusions of grandeur. They're hardly different from the Arabs, they just happen to be the victims of European oppression so we all feel sensitive towards them.

This is an issue I really can't discuss with people older then me, because my parents generation just can't escape the pro-Israeli indoctrination they've grown up in.
 
Nothing, but it has a lot to do with our support of Israel. The way I see it, Israel has no particular claim to moral superiority, and our alliance serves no American political, military or economic interest and antagonizes nations that we do have legitimate interests with.

Furthermore, I believe that Israel is aware of all of this and consciously abuses our lobbying system to distort American foreign policy in their interests.

Israel can do whatever it wants.

However, it should not be entitled to our support and money.

Israel is a vicious violent manipulative welfare queen from hell.

Republicans complete support of the nation violates all of their supposed principles.
No, Israel is a Democracy defending itself from evil.
 
According to who?

If they can claim they are God's favourites, then can i claim Messiah?

No, you may not. It would be a lie coming from you and you have nothing to back that claim up.
 
No they're just another obnoxious Semitic tribe with delusions of grandeur. They're hardly different from the Arabs, they just happen to be the victims of European oppression so we all feel sensitive towards them.

This is an issue I really can't discuss with people older then me, because my parents generation just can't escape the pro-Israeli indoctrination they've grown up in.

And you can't get over the anti-Israeli indoctrination that you think makes you cool.
 
-- There WILL be extra security on the streets in cities across the UK for at least the next two weeks.

I'd be really surprised if this happened. The local fundamentalists are being closely watched and if they pop their heads up to fart our security will be watching.

Anyhow, on the raids - Israel has been targeting the underground supply tunnels which are used to smuggle weapons into Gaza from Egypt. I watched BBC reporters some months back following the tunnelers and basically Israel is doing Egypt a big favour here too. Egypt can't deal with the illegals themselves for fear of being targeted by home grown fundamentalists.

There's no easy right or wrong here, Hamas are an extreme reaction to the plight of the Palestinians but equally Israeli citizens have been targeted and Israel has a duty to protect its people. The worrying element is that Israel has started calling up reservists now prior to sending ground troops in, predictably there have been condemnations and calls for restraint from around the world but in this instance Israel can point at the previous provocation and ask why those same voices weren't calling for Hamas to stop launching rockets into Israel.
 
No they're just another obnoxious Semitic tribe with delusions of grandeur. They're hardly different from the Arabs, they just happen to be the victims of European oppression so we all feel sensitive towards them.

This is an issue I really can't discuss with people older then me, because my parents generation just can't escape the pro-Israeli indoctrination they've grown up in.

I'm not that much older than you. And I don't appreciate you implying that a differing view from yours has to be the result of indoctrination rather than reason.
 
I apologize for that comment, it was unfair and unreasonable.

However there is a noticeable difference between my generation (and I've noticed, pretty much my generation alone) and everyone else when it comes to Israel.

And to be honest there is a huge amount of "Jews are sad" literature foisted on all school students. I think for older people the Israelis successfully translated this into support for Israel (which is perhaps Israel's most disgusting crime). I think their ability to do that is faltering. Hence my generation.
 
I apologize for that comment, it was unfair and unreasonable.

However there is a noticeable difference between my generation (and I've noticed, pretty much my generation alone) and everyone else when it comes to Israel.

And to be honest there is a huge amount of "Jews are sad" literature foisted on all school students. I think for older people the Israelis successfully translated this into support for Israel (which is perhaps Israel's most disgusting crime). I think their ability to do that is faltering. Hence my generation.

Well, I do kind of feel like we should have carved a big section out of Germany for them rather than plunking them down in the ME. I will grant you that doing that was kind of an emotional decision at the time and should have been thought through a little better.
 
Thats interesting. A while back I asked a palestinian poster on this website about how Hamas' attacks on Isreali civillians could be justified. His reply was remarkably similar.

You mean Israeli citizens demonstrate in the streets with suicide belts on and holding rockets pointed at Gaza and the West Bank? What foolishness.
 
You mean Israeli citizens demonstrate in the streets with suicide belts on and holding rockets pointed at Gaza and the West Bank? What foolishness.

Well there are some militant jewish sects but they do stuff like squat in homes that the Israeli government has declared illegal settlements. LOL
 
Similarly, the people of Gaza seem to demand that their government do whatever is neccesary to end the crippling blockade!

The tragedy is that neither side is likely to acheive their goals through this violence.

Unlike Israel, they have no Article 51 rights to stop it. Israel HAS Article 51 rights to defend themselves. Also, PEACE is the best way to end the "blockade" not rockets.
 
I just cannot understand why conservatives resent various American social welfare programs but are so happy to give so much money to that nasty little country that benefits us so little. And then they justify it with "well their enemies are worse." That's our standard? All a country needs to be "good" is worse enemies? The logic has become that the Arabs are our inevitable enemies and that we have to support Israel to fight them. The Arabs are our enemies because of Israel! I'm not saying they would have loved us without Israel's existence, but the region would have just been so much better for us. And for the Arabs too- all Arabs despotism uses the false threat of Israel to justify their regimes.

Do you realize that without our support of Israel it's possible that 9/11 may have never happened? Is it really worth that much?

If we told the world tomorrow that we would not support Israel any further until they denuclearized the entire world would view America so completely different that it'd be astounding.
 
I just cannot understand why conservatives resent various American social welfare programs but are so happy to give so much money to that nasty little country that benefits us so little. And then they justify it with "well their enemies are worse." That's our standard? All a country needs to be "good" is worse enemies? The logic has become that the Arabs are our inevitable enemies and that we have to support Israel to fight them. The Arabs are our enemies because of Israel! I'm not saying they would have loved us without Israel's existence, but the region would have just been so much better for us. And for the Arabs too- all Arabs despotism uses the false threat of Israel to justify their regimes.

Do you realize that without our support of Israel it's possible that 9/11 may have never happened? Is it really worth that much?

If we told the world tomorrow that we would not support Israel any further until they denuclearized the entire world would view America so completely different that it'd be astounding.

I think it's a little more complex than that. As long as the Arab world is gnashing its teeth and spitting over Israel, they don't have the focus to confront the western world head on. Israel is almost a foreign policy buffer between us and them that keeps the fight there for the most part.
 
I think it works in completely the opposite direction, and if you listen to any of Osama's tapes, I think my view is confirmed. We're sucked into their hatred of Israel, not protected by it.
 
When there are more civilians than militants in those areas?

Yeah pretty much, if it saves lives.

So, according to your logic, the terrorists can lob rockets into Israeli civilian areas, then hide amongst civilians, and there is nothing Israel can do about it?

:confused:
 
I apologize for that comment, it was unfair and unreasonable.

However there is a noticeable difference between my generation (and I've noticed, pretty much my generation alone) and everyone else when it comes to Israel.

And to be honest there is a huge amount of "Jews are sad" literature foisted on all school students. I think for older people the Israelis successfully translated this into support for Israel (which is perhaps Israel's most disgusting crime). I think their ability to do that is faltering. Hence my generation.

Actually our generation learned it from experience. We witnessed waves of bombings and attacks in Europe and the middle east. We watched the tragedy of the Olympics in munich. we watched several wars where Israel was for no reason surprise attacked by multiple Arab states

Then we watched after these wars Israel give back to those who attacked her land that she had taken in battle.

We have watched as Israel has made concession after concession and fulfilled demand after demand trying to secure peace in the region. And still she is under attack

No body had to hand us "feel sad for the Jews" pamphlets. All we had to do was watch the news.

Moe
 
I think it works in completely the opposite direction, and if you listen to any of Osama's tapes, I think my view is confirmed. We're sucked into their hatred of Israel, not protected by it.

If they didn't hate us indirectly through Israel, they would hate us directly without Israel.

It's the nature of the Middle East. It has always been mired in violent and bloody conflict over something. As long as we need oil, we are going to have to deal with ME temper tantrums and barbaric, emotional radicalism that is as bountiful as the sand and camel **** you find there.
 
Actually our generation learned it from experience. We witnessed waves of bombings and attacks in Europe and the middle east. We watched the tragedy of the Olympics in munich. we watched several wars where Israel was for no reason surprise attacked by multiple Arab states

Then we watched after these wars Israel give back to those who attacked her land that she had taken in battle.

We have watched as Israel has made concession after concession and fulfilled demand after demand trying to secure peace in the region. And still she is under attack

No body had to hand us "feel sad for the Jews" pamphlets. All we had to do was watch the news.

Moe

I could name a dozen places in the world where exactly the same thing has happened. And yet they aren't our "most valued allies".

And why? Because they don't have AIPAC to manipulate the US government.
 
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