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Israeli air strikes target Gaza

ludahai said:
The UN will NOT step in. China's veto power would prevent any force that would protect Israel from Hamas's rockets and the U.S. would ensure that Israel's legitimate interests are protected. If you think the UNSC is the solution, you are suffering from severe Ostrich Syndrome.
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Seems better than any alternative. As long as they dont **** anything up.
 
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ludahai said:
The UN will NOT step in. China's veto power would prevent any force that would protect Israel from Hamas's rockets and the U.S. would ensure that Israel's legitimate interests are protected.
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Well, China veto's any Pro Israel resolutions.
US veto's any Pro Palestinian/Anti Israel resolutions.
Not exactly new information ...
 
dirtpoorchris said:
Seems better than any alternative. As long as they dont **** anything up. Especially if they are suspending elections.
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You don't get it. It simply WILL NOT HAPPEN. You obviously don't understand the dynamics of the members of the UNSC, especially the P5.
 
cheat3 said:
And US support would no longer be viable in the face of international condemnation, Israel has to be seen to be targeting 'militants', it is fighting a media war as well as an occupation.
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I agree with your statement. But to Laila and those who would decry the innocents killed without recognizing the restraint shown by the IDF in not killing more, you can't have it both ways.

The IDF waited to go in at all and if they were really trying to kill civilians they could easily have killed scores more than they did.

cheat3, I recognize the importance of not only being in the right but appearing to be in the right.

The Palestinians have a difficult time appearing to be in the right because on the foundation of this matter they have very little to justify their intransigence. They have a claim to the land but not a greater claim than the Israelis. But, if I'm not mistaken, their religion does not allow for them to give up the land. So they have sought to play the perpetual victim in order to keep from losing popular support around the world in the court of public opinion.

But where there is a perpetual victim there must also be a perpetual villain and the Israeli government understands this is how many wish to see them, thanks to the Palestinian grandstanding and showcasing everything done to them no matter how they themselves provoked these acts.

So, it appears the Israeli government does what it must to not only be in the right but sometimes to make sure they don't lose in the court of public opinion.
 
ludahai said:
It is a couple or three pages back. I am actually eating dinner right now, else I would look for it for you.
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I had to go pack to page 16 to find Laila's comments. :lol:
 
Laila said:
Israel would be doing it if it didn't cripple them, the only thing holding them back on restraint is image otherwise i highly doubt US would condemn any form of killing on Israel's part
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Was the death and destruction of WWII worth the peace and prosperity Germany and Japan have enjoyed since then? It's debatable.

But could such peace and prosperity have occurred without the war? No. Unquestionably not.

How does a burn victim heal? First by the excruciatingly painful scrubbing off of the burned skin.

But the way the situation is now it's just a gaping, oozing two gashes where there is nothing encouraging going on. It is where life exists. Little more than that.

ludahai said:
Holy crap - this thread just goes on and on, doesn't.
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Yes. It does.
 
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Comparing WW2 to a conflict such as this? Really?

In the 0.000001% of the time, perhaps it can be justified. But this conflict is not one of them
 
Laila said:
Comparing WW2 to a conflict such as this? Really?

In the 0.000001% of the time, perhaps it can be justified. But this conflict is not one of them
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Your opinion.
 
dirtpoorchris said:
Israel is messin up. They dont have much land to work with compared to others so their citizens better reign their government in a bit.
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They do not have much because they gave all the land back that they have captured in past wars with the Arabs including the Temple mount itself. And in showing their appreciation the Muslims stand on top of the mount and throw rocks down on the heads of Jews. In 1967 Israeli forces actually captured the temple mount and it was completely under Jewish control.

They did not have to give it back. To the victor goes the spoils.

Now if Israel giving up the temple mount to the Muslims is not a sign that they really would like peace then there simply is no sign that people against Israel would ever accept

Moe
 
Laila said:
Yep, Its going round in circles as well.
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What I've noticed over the years is that even the most rational posters become dogmatic and less rational when trying to defend the Palestinian position.

There is little to defend. It's like a defense attorney whose client insists on promoting a story which depends on winning the jury's emotions instead of their logic.

Virtually every step of the way since 1948, save a few notable exceptions, the Israeli government has acted in a way designed to promote peace and conciliation. And this is shown by the Israeli's ability to sign peace accords with two of their previous most bitter of enemies, the Egyptians and Jordanians.

You can go round and round but we all see things for what they are.

The Palestinian intransigence is religious in nature as much as it is a territorial dispute ONLY.

Maybe more so.
 
bhkad said:
What I've noticed over the years is that even the most rational posters become dogmatic and less rational when trying to defend the Palestinian position.
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Funny, i'd use the same term for those who defend Israel's actions
 
Are we now comparing these attacks to London bombings?

First WW2, now London 7/7. What next? 9/11? Madrid bombings?
 
:Britain and US refuse to demand end to Israeli airstrikes on Gaza

Britain and the United States were on a collision course with their European allies last night after refusing to call for an end to Israeli airstrikes on Hamas targets in Gaza.

The wave of attacks marked a violent end to President George W Bush’s sporadic Middle East peace efforts. The White House put the blame squarely on Hamas, which it considers a terrorist organisation, for provoking the Israeli blitz.

Britain echoed the call for “militants” to stop firing rockets into Israel while calling for “maximum restraint” to avoid casualties.

The response was in sharp contrast to demands by the European Union for an “immediate ceasefire” and criticism by France of the use of “disproportionate force”.
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Its a sad day when EU shows more morality than US or UK.

Can't say i expected any less from that blithering spineless fool, oh well. less than 1 year Brown before you are out ... Im counting down the days until Election day
 
Laila said:
:Britain and US refuse to demand end to Israeli airstrikes on Gaza



Its a sad day when EU shows more morality than US or UK.

Can't say i expected any less from that blithering spineless fool, oh well. less than 1 year Brown before you are out ... Im counting down the days until Election day
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I am proud of the US and Brittain for standing by their ally, Israel. Israel has every right to protect its citizens with force when they are constantly under attack by primitive, classless, subhuman scum. I hope the air strikes last for days still.
 
jallman said:
I am proud of the US and Brittain for standing by their ally, Israel. Israel has every right to protect its citizens with force when they are constantly under attack by primitive, classless, subhuman scum. I hope the air strikes last for days still.
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Im ashamed to have Brown as my PM. God, our moral ground must be in the minuses.

No wonder UK cannot join the EU fully
Our foreign policy is set by Washington :/

Israel is not UK's ally. It is US's. Difference

I hope if Israel continues the attacks and the death toll rises on civilians side, EU uses it as a means of shunning Israel some more.
 
Laila said:
Are we now comparing these attacks to London bombings?

First WW2, now London 7/7. What next? 9/11? Madrid bombings?
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No what we are comparing it to is the preferred targets of the Muslim " Freedom Fighters" as compared to a military operation of a sovereign nation to stop such attacks against their own people.

Do you deny that if Hamas did not actively seek the harm of innocent Israeli's on Israeli soil that there would be no on going military strikes against them today?

Moe
 
Laila said:
Im ashamed to have Brown as my PM. God, our moral ground must be in the minuses.

No wonder UK cannot join the EU fully
Our foreign policy is set by Washington :/

Israel is not UK's ally. It is US's. Difference

I hope if Israel continues the attacks and the death toll rises on civilians side, EU uses it as a means of shunning Israel some more.
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Wrong. GB supports Israel as an ally just as the US does. And I cannot believe you take such a stance against Israel defending itself against the barbarians at its border. Where was your condemnation for the days of rocket launches into Israeli territory? Hmm? Hmm?
 
Laila said:
Israel would be doing it if it didn't cripple them, the only thing holding them back on restraint is image otherwise i highly doubt US would condemn any form of killing on Israel's part
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War is hell and people die. Sometimes innocent people. This is especially true when “warriors” willfully and purposefully merge with a civilian population.

Any notion that Hamas and the Gazan's had no idea what was looming would be preposterous. For weeks now, Israel has been warning Hamas by every means available to stop the rocket attacks. The Internet, radio, television, newsprint, and leaflets. The Abbas government in Ramallah warned Hamas. Even Egypt publicly warned Hamas to stop the attacks or it would face the consequences.

The attacks not only continued... but also increased in frequency and with ever larger salvos. The proverbial writing was on the wall. No one should be surprised or flummoxed. Hamas wanted war and Israel has no other viable option. As long as a month ago in these very forums I warned that Hamas was playing a very dangerous game. No other nation in the world would have waited weeks to forcefully respond to rockets falling on its cities and towns every day. There eventually comes a point where enough is enough. We are at that point.

Much depends on the response of Hamas. I will tell you plainly that if Hamas persists with its attacks, the IDF will also respond with land forces. What happens next is up to those who rule Gaza. This can be very easy or it can get very ugly. I suspect it will be the latter. We shall see how this plays out.
 
jallman said:
Wrong. GB supports Israel as an ally just as the US does. And I cannot believe you take such a stance against Israel defending itself against the barbarians at its border. Where was your condemnation for the days of rocket launches into Israeli territory? Hmm? Hmm?
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Was there a thread for me to express disgust?
Would you like me to condemn it to make you feel better ? [ignoring the fact throughout this thread i have condemned both sides]

Not really, what does Israel do for GB?
Please don't tell me we give Israel money as well :S
I do not see Israel as an ally.
EU = Ally
US = Ally
Anything else? Not so much

Look on the brightside Jallman, when the Lisbon treaty is accepted. UK has to adopt EU foreign policy [hopefully] which may just make us more central rather than so biased in favour of one side like idiots.
 
jallman said:
Wrong. GB supports Israel as an ally just as the US does. And I cannot believe you take such a stance against Israel defending itself against the barbarians at its border. Where was your condemnation for the days of rocket launches into Israeli territory? Hmm? Hmm?
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That was different. That was their friends killing Jews which apparently seems to be OK.

Moe
 
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