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Thread: Israeli air strikes target Gaza

  1. #971
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    Re: Israeli air strikes target Gaza

    Quote Originally Posted by bub View Post
    I don't know if the UN consider Gaza as a state or not, or if the Gaza raids are considered as an attack against the Palestinian Authority or what...
    Palestine is NOT recognized as a state by the UN.

    but anyway, if you apply the article 51 of the UN chart, then you have to apply the things that go with this article => proportionality
    There is no mention of proportionality in Article 51

    The book I showed you says that legitime defense is an unwritten (customary????) right and that the UN chart does not limit it. However, "the legality of legitime defense depends on the proportionality of the acts taken in its name".
    Legitimate defense was originally customary, but is now codified by the UN charter. The UN Charter does not limit it.

    As for proportionality, that is 1. open to interpretation, and 2. the opinion of a limited number of scholars. There is nothing either written or in general state practice that confirms this.
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    Re: Israeli air strikes target Gaza

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Palestine is NOT recognized as a state by the UN.



    There is no mention of proportionality in Article 51



    Legitimate defense was originally customary, but is now codified by the UN charter. The UN Charter does not limit it.

    As for proportionality, that is 1. open to interpretation, and 2. the opinion of a limited number of scholars. There is nothing either written or in general state practice that confirms this.
    I'm deeply sorry but if you ignore the opinion of the Prosecutor of the International Criminal Court and if you think that a book called "Manual of Jurisprudence of the International Court of Justice" (which is by the way the only legal body in this case according to you) is irrelevant, it will be very difficult to debate!

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    Re: Israeli air strikes target Gaza

    Quote Originally Posted by bub View Post
    I'm deeply sorry but if you ignore the opinion of the Prosecutor of the International Criminal Court and if you think that a book called "Manual of Jurisprudence of the International Court of Justice" (which is by the way the only legal body in this case according to you) is irrelevant, it will be very difficult to debate!
    The Prosecutor does not make decisions. He is merely a lawyer. Is there a case from the ICJ that relates to the Israel-Gaza case? If you think other cases can be implied onto it, you should read Article 59 of the Statute of the ICJ before you try that kind of argument.
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  4. #974
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    Re: Israeli air strikes target Gaza

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    How do you geographically unite Palestine without dividing Israel?
    I never said it would be easy, but I know it would never happen. Palestinians would never relocate and Israel would never concede any more land.

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    Re: Israeli air strikes target Gaza

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    Hell no.
    That is collective punishment.
    I have no idea what fool thought blocking all food, medicine and electricity was somehow going to work against Hamas.

    Here is a question for you, ignore everything that both sides have done for a moment.
    If a outside Government has prevented aid from getting in to feed your people, would you have a right to respond?
    Yes os course you have a right. Here is the problem. Israel lifts the blockade and Hamas instead of being concerned with the Palestinian people will use the oppurtunity to re-arm. And If they do they are likely to obtain more dangerous weapons. Weapons which they will use regardless of a ceasefire.

    Here is something else, this morning I was watching CNN International. A story comes on that Israel turns down a ceasefire. They never once mentioned if Hamas turned it down. Does anyone think that Hamas would honor a ceasefire? You have to have honor to honor something. Hamas will continue with its goal and the Palestinian people will suffer.
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    Re: Israeli air strikes target Gaza

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    Lmao, protesting =]
    I don't think i'll be doing that for a few days
    My body is killing me, you'd think the stupid little teens who are screaming abuse would realise that attempting to knock down the barriers doesn't equate the embassy suddenley blowing up

    What a f*cked up photo, you should know i never cover my face! :P

    But yeah, it was fun xD
    The lone person with a peace flag lol
    wa Alaykum As-Salaam love
    Now THIS is a violent protest.
    YouTube - Protesters use flamethrowers against police
    Now THAT is a riot!
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    Re: Israeli air strikes target Gaza

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    As for proportionality, that is 1. open to interpretation, and 2. the opinion of a limited number of scholars. There is nothing either written or in general state practice that confirms this.
    More on the matter of proportionality from Benjamin Netanyahu:

    Netanyahu said that he believed the number of casualties should not "be the determinant of what is proportionate and who is in the right."

    Israel's reaction has been criticised as disproportionate to Hamas' stream of rocket attacks on Israeli border communities. On that basis, Netanyahu said, Britain would have been in the wrong and Germany in the right during World War II.

    Netanyahu stressed that Israel was in the right responding to the attacks.

    NDTV.com: Gaza militants continue to fire rockets at Israel
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  8. #978
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    Re: Israeli air strikes target Gaza

    Quote Originally Posted by bhkad View Post
    More on the matter of proportionality from Benjamin Netanyahu:


    The Blitz - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    The Blitz was the sustained bombing of Britain by Nazi Germany between 7 September 1940 and 10 May 1941, in World War II. The name is a shortening of the German term, "Blitzkrieg", or "Lightning War". While the "Blitz" hit many towns and cities across the country, it began with the bombing of London for 57 consecutive nights .[1] By the end of May 1941, over 43,000 civilians, half of them in London, had been killed by bombing and more than a million houses destroyed or damaged in London alone.
    I'm Finding it Harder to be a Gentleman, White Stripes ~ "You think I care about me and only me. When every girl needs help climbing up a tree."

  9. #979
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    Re: Israeli air strikes target Gaza

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    LOL! Wow, I cannot understand why the Israeli navy would pull out the stops to keep an unauthorized, uninspected vessel that won't respond to radio contact from breaking a blockade in the middle of a shooting war! Geez, it's not like it could have been bringing, you know, weapons and explosives to Hamas.

    Unheard of!
    They can't even get their story straight.
    Firedoglake » Why Israel Won’t Allow Journalists Into Gaza


    Overnight, the Jerusalem Post carried a story titled Navy Sends Activist Boat Back to Cyprus which said:

    The Navy has turned back a boat trying to carry pro-Palestinian protesters to the Gaza Strip, officials said Tuesday

    Foreign Ministry spokesman Yigal Palmor said the boat ignored an Israeli radio order to turn back early Tuesday. He said the boat tried to outmaneuver the navy ship and crashed into it, lightly damaging both vessels. The navy then escorted the boat to the territorial waters of Cyprus.
    In a report from the AFP, Israeli authorities said is was all just a mistake:

    Israeli foreign ministry spokesman Yigal Palmor told AFP that the naval vessel tried to contact the aid boat by radio for identification and to inform it that it could not enter Gaza.

    "After the boat did not answer the radio, it sharply veered and the two vessels collided, causing only light damage," Palmor said.

    The Israeli spokesman accused the pro-Palestinian activists of "seeking provocation more than ever."
    But this time, a reporter, Karl Penhaul from CNN, was actually on the boat - and gave the report you see above as the events were happening:

    ... the boat while still in international waters has been rammed by Israeli patrol boats, our vessel has been damaged ...there's been some damage to a roof section and to glass windows around the steering area and the captain says that the vessel is taking on a small amount of water, that at this stage is not life threatening but the ship was very severely rammed by one of those Israeli patrol boats, those patrol boats have been following the vessel for the half hour prior to the ramming incident ... they rammed the vessel without warning but after the ramming there was a radio message saying the Israeli patrol boat was accusing the Dignity of being involved in terrorist activities.
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  10. #980
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    Re: Israeli air strikes target Gaza

    http://www.reuters.com/article/domes...R820081230Digg [/url]
    U.S. man pleads guilty to acting as agent for Israel
    NEW YORK/WASHINGTON (Reuters) - An 85-year-old former U.S. Army employee pleaded guilty on Tuesday to acting as an unregistered agent of Israel and admitted he gave classified documents to the Jewish state in the 1980s.

    Court documents show the defendant, Ben-Ami Kadish, reported to the same handler as Jonathan Pollard, an American who spied for Israel in the 1980s and triggered a scandal that rocked U.S.-Israeli relations.
    Last edited by dirtpoorchris; 12-31-08 at 04:11 PM.
    I'm Finding it Harder to be a Gentleman, White Stripes ~ "You think I care about me and only me. When every girl needs help climbing up a tree."

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