For the record - on this one I had to agree the Israeli retaliation, Hamas had been sending rockets in for days and nobody around the world asked them to stop except Israel. When the natural reaction happened then world leaders started asking Israel to stop their retaliation. That would seem like double standards to the Israelis which is why they have ignored the calls - and now the action has gone on too long those calls are meaningless, which is the real problem.
That is collective punishment.
I have no idea what fool thought blocking all food, medicine and electricity was somehow going to work against Hamas.
Here is a question for you, ignore everything that both sides have done for a moment.
If a outside Government has prevented aid from getting in to feed your people, would you have a right to respond?
but anyway, if you apply the article 51 of the UN chart, then you have to apply the things that go with this article => proportionality
The book I showed you says that legitime defense is an unwritten (customary????) right and that the UN chart does not limit it. However, "the legality of legitime defense depends on the proportionality of the acts taken in its name".
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Intentionally launching an attack in the knowledge that such attack will cause incidental loss of life or injury to civilians or damage to civilian objects or widespread, long-term and severe damage to the natural environment which would be clearly excessive in relation to the concrete and direct overall military advantage anticipated;
Article 8(2)(b)(iv) draws on the principles in Article 51(5)(b) of the 1977 Additional Protocol I to the 1949 Geneva Conventions, but restricts the criminal prohibition to cases that are "clearly" excessive. The application of Article 8(2)(b)(iv) requires, inter alia, an assessment of:
(a) the anticipated civilian damage or injury;
(b) the anticipated military advantage;
(c) and whether (a) was "clearly excessive" in relation to (b).
In my opinion, a (the +70 civilians killed) is excessive in relation to b (the hypothetical and at most temporary stop of rocket launches that have killed 2 or 3 Israeli civilians)
I repeat: it is excessive because of 3 reasons:
- it doesn't prevent Hamas from launching rockets => it's inefficient
- even if it did succeed, Hamas would start again next week => it's not adequate
- the rockets cause many damages, and unfortunately they killed several Israeli, but they cause MUCH LESS damages (even if it is too much) than the Israeli retaliation raids => it's not proportional
To be proportional, the raids shoud guarantee that Hamas do not launch rockets anymore (which is not and won't be the case) OR it should not kill more than a few civilians (which is not the case neither)
Last edited by bub; 12-31-08 at 07:14 AM.