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Thread: Israeli air strikes target Gaza

  1. #961
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    Re: Israeli air strikes target Gaza

    Quote Originally Posted by Vader View Post
    Label?

    You do tend to support the Palestinian side of the story without exception.

    This does make it seem that you have some inherant dislike for jews

    I have a tendency to side with Palestinians if a attack occurs.

    Do i hate all jews?

  2. #962
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    Re: Israeli air strikes target Gaza

    Quote Originally Posted by Vader View Post
    You dislike the US becuase they support Israel. This is just down right nasty not-niceness.
    No, not really.

    I loved US pre Bush.
    Israel has and always will be a strong ally of US. If i hated US purely on Israel, then i should have always hated US no?

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    Re: Israeli air strikes target Gaza

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    Welcome to debatepolitics.com, at least as I've seen it since I joined.
    True to some extent. Criticising Israeli actions can make you a baby murderer sometimes but it is up to those criticised to keep trying to be honest. There I have faith in bub and laila.

    For the record - on this one I had to agree the Israeli retaliation, Hamas had been sending rockets in for days and nobody around the world asked them to stop except Israel. When the natural reaction happened then world leaders started asking Israel to stop their retaliation. That would seem like double standards to the Israelis which is why they have ignored the calls - and now the action has gone on too long those calls are meaningless, which is the real problem.

  4. #964
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    Re: Israeli air strikes target Gaza

    Quote Originally Posted by SgtRock View Post
    Would you remove its support base using blockades?
    Hell no.
    That is collective punishment.
    I have no idea what fool thought blocking all food, medicine and electricity was somehow going to work against Hamas.

    Here is a question for you, ignore everything that both sides have done for a moment.
    If a outside Government has prevented aid from getting in to feed your people, would you have a right to respond?

  5. #965
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    Re: Israeli air strikes target Gaza

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    You forget something. Gaza is not a state. You also forget that Hamas started this. Israel has the right to do what is necessary to protect itself.

    Much of this proportionality is the mental masturbation of a limited number of commentators. It is NOT been confirmed by customary state practice or treaty law.

    It also refers to the aggressor. However, remember that Hamas is the aggressor in that they launched the first attacks in this conflict.
    I don't know if the UN consider Gaza as a state or not, or if the Gaza raids are considered as an attack against the Palestinian Authority or what...

    but anyway, if you apply the article 51 of the UN chart, then you have to apply the things that go with this article => proportionality

    The book I showed you says that legitime defense is an unwritten (customary????) right and that the UN chart does not limit it. However, "the legality of legitime defense depends on the proportionality of the acts taken in its name".

  6. #966
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    Re: Israeli air strikes target Gaza

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    Yeah.
    UK Milliband has hinted that EU troops may play a part within the border line ...
    "hinted" Until those troops materialize, Israel must do what it can to protect itself.
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  7. #967
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    Re: Israeli air strikes target Gaza

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    I said 'whatever term you wish to use'
    My term for US is 'Pro Israel'
    Im not wrong am i?
    Sure the U.S. is pro-Israel. It should be. However, it is too much to say that the U.S. is anti-Muslim.
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  8. #968
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    Re: Israeli air strikes target Gaza

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    I don't see that in your source - though to be honest, I am only skimming it.

    However, we could then get into an argument over proportionality. I would argue that Israel's restraint IS proportional. If they were on a fule scale offensive where they were trying to kill, don't you think they could kill far more than the 300 some odd they have killed so far?
    Under international humanitarian law and the Rome Statute, the death of civilians during an armed conflict, no matter how grave and regrettable, does not in itself constitute a war crime. International humanitarian law and the Rome Statute permit belligerents to carry out proportionate attacks against military objectives,[1] even when it is known that some civilian deaths or injuries will occur. A crime occurs if there is an intentional attack directed against civilians (principle of distinction) (Article 8(2)(b)(i)) or an attack is launched on a military objective in the knowledge that the incidental civilian injuries would be clearly excessive in relation to the anticipated military advantage (principle of proportionality) (Article 8(2)(b)(iv). Article 8(2)(b)(iv) criminalizes:
    Intentionally launching an attack in the knowledge that such attack will cause incidental loss of life or injury to civilians or damage to civilian objects or widespread, long-term and severe damage to the natural environment which would be clearly excessive in relation to the concrete and direct overall military advantage anticipated;
    Article 8(2)(b)(iv) draws on the principles in Article 51(5)(b) of the 1977 Additional Protocol I to the 1949 Geneva Conventions, but restricts the criminal prohibition to cases that are "clearly" excessive. The application of Article 8(2)(b)(iv) requires, inter alia, an assessment of:
    (a) the anticipated civilian damage or injury;
    (b) the anticipated military advantage;
    (c) and whether (a) was "clearly excessive" in relation to (b).



    In my opinion, a (the +70 civilians killed) is excessive in relation to b (the hypothetical and at most temporary stop of rocket launches that have killed 2 or 3 Israeli civilians)

    I repeat: it is excessive because of 3 reasons:
    - it doesn't prevent Hamas from launching rockets => it's inefficient
    - even if it did succeed, Hamas would start again next week => it's not adequate
    - the rockets cause many damages, and unfortunately they killed several Israeli, but they cause MUCH LESS damages (even if it is too much) than the Israeli retaliation raids => it's not proportional


    To be proportional, the raids shoud guarantee that Hamas do not launch rockets anymore (which is not and won't be the case) OR it should not kill more than a few civilians (which is not the case neither)
    Last edited by bub; 12-31-08 at 08:14 AM.

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    Re: Israeli air strikes target Gaza

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Sure the U.S. is pro-Israel. It should be. However, it is too much to say that the U.S. is anti-Muslim.
    I used more than one term which someone could use, no need to be so sensitive

  10. #970
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    Re: Israeli air strikes target Gaza

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Israel must do what it can to protect itself.
    Within reason

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