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Thread: Israeli air strikes target Gaza

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    Re: Israeli air strikes target Gaza

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    It is not in the United States', Russia's, or China's national interest to provide military assistance to a radical terrorist group that rejects a sovereign state's right to exist, deliberately and indiscriminately attacks civilians, and embraces a radical philosophy that rejects compromise. Furthermore, it is not in their interests to deprive Israel of its right of self-defense, especially when each of those countries has exercised self defense (U.S.: war in Afghanistan following the 9/11 terrorist attacks, Russia's counterterrorism against Chechen terrorists responsible for the Beslan massacre, and China's fight against Islamist terrorists in its Xinjiang Province. Therefore, such assistance won't be forthcoming.
    Get out of the OPT!

    Enough is enough.

    Don't tell me Israel is without sin. I completely reject that argument.

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    Re: Israeli air strikes target Gaza

    Quote Originally Posted by lynnb View Post
    It seems like you are very unaware of the facts here. Israel's "brutality" happened due to the fact that for approximately 8 years israeli citizens in Sederot absorbed heavy fire of rockeets coming from Gaza. For eight years kids in Sederot have been hearing sirens every day, running in the streets looking for cover.

    Now, the rockets ae improved and they reach up to 30 km from the gaza strip. Right now, as I write this message, I keep my ears open so I can hear if a siren will go off. It happened in my city twice already.

    As for the lack basic services, Israel is supplying the civilians in Gaza with humanitarian aid of food, water and medicine. In fact, one day before the IDF began this operation, the Israeli government sent 40 trucks filled with humanitarian aid into the Gaza strip.
    40 trucks filled with well planned logistics for there own troops.
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    Re: Israeli air strikes target Gaza

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Legitimate link? That statement goes directly against its own charter, which calls for the destruction of Israel as well as against the statements of its primary benefactor of their organization which calls for Israel to be "wiped off the map."
    Hamas has refused to accept that Israel has the "right" to exist as doing so would implicity ackoweldge that the Zionist have a greater claim to the area than the Arabs. What Hamas is prepared to do is ackoweldge the reality of the situation; that Israel controls a large part of the area and there is little Hamas can do about that. Why isn't that a valid starting point for negotiations?

    "As a Palestinian today I speak of a Palestinian and Arab demand for a state on 1967 borders. It is true that in reality there will be an entity or state called Israel on the rest of Palestinian land,” he said.

    “This is a reality but I won’t deal with it in terms of recognising or admitting it,” the Hamas leader said.


    Hamas leader accepts the 'reality' of Israel - Times Online
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    Re: Israeli air strikes target Gaza

    Quote Originally Posted by Billo_Really View Post
    I realize this and applaud Israel's efforts in these areas. I am also against all these rocket attacks. But let me ask you, is Sederot a city west of the Green Line, or east of it? The single biggest problem between Israeli-Palestian relations, is the "occupation". This is a problem for which there is only one solution .... that is to end it. And you cannot tell me that Israel has not shut off basic services before in retaliation to these rockets. I think Israel has a right to defend itself, even in the OPT. But Israel does not have a right to take out vengence on the innocent Palestinian population.
    Israel has tried it's best not to take any vengence of palestinian citizens. Our prime minister and Our secretary of defence have made it clear that this operation is not intending to harm any innocent palestinians.

    Just today Israel passed some aid to the Gaza Strip. Israel is trying it's best to protect the palestinian civillians, but with Hamas ruling over the Gaza Strip, they make it hade on us to support the civillians.

    Noow let me ask something else: why doesn't the UN, France, Russia and every other country or organization calling for an immediate ceasefire help by sanding some humanitarian aid to help the citizens? where is your government in this situation???

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    Re: Israeli air strikes target Gaza

    Quote Originally Posted by dirtpoorchris View Post
    40 trucks filled with well planned logistics for there own troops.
    I'm sorry, it seems like you are saying silly things about things you clearly don't know one thing about.

    or maybe I misunderstood you?

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    Re: Israeli air strikes target Gaza

    Quote Originally Posted by lynnb View Post
    Israel has tried it's best not to take any vengence of palestinian citizens. Our prime minister and Our secretary of defence have made it clear that this operation is not intending to harm any innocent palestinians.

    Just today Israel passed some aid to the Gaza Strip. Israel is trying it's best to protect the palestinian civillians, but with Hamas ruling over the Gaza Strip, they make it hade on us to support the civillians.

    Noow let me ask something else: why doesn't the UN, France, Russia and every other country or organization calling for an immediate ceasefire help by sanding some humanitarian aid to help the citizens? where is your government in this situation???
    Haven't you been following our economic situation? My government can't afford a bowl of rice. But we do provide aid.........military aid to Israel. $4 billion a year. But that's nothing new. The US is the biggest arms dealer in the world. It's our main export. I wish we would give aid to the Palestinian's. It's not right for us to withhold aid just because Gaza elected someone we have issues with. Hamas is the legally democratic government in Gaza and there is nothing anyone should do in that respect to destabilize their authority. It is not our place to decide who leads who. Every citizen of every country has a right to self-determination. Hamas, in return, needs to stop these rockets at all costs and recognize Israel's right to exist and live in peace. Israel is not going away (as a nation/state) and there is no point in discussing their demise.
    Last edited by Billo_Really; 12-29-08 at 09:36 PM.

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    Re: Israeli air strikes target Gaza

    These Qussam rockets look like beefed up model rockets. I wonder what the payload/dammage is.

    Warning: This clip contains really annoying music.
    YouTube - Qassam Rocket Nasheed
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    Re: Israeli air strikes target Gaza

    Quote Originally Posted by dirtpoorchris View Post
    These Qussam rockets look like beefed up model rockets. I wonder what the payload/dammage is.

    Warning: This clip contains really annoying music.
    YouTube - Qassam Rocket Nasheed
    At least Vader's propaganda video had a cool rock song.

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    Re: Israeli air strikes target Gaza

    Quote Originally Posted by Billo_Really View Post
    At least Vader's propaganda video had a cool rock song.
    Ya they have to have bigger rockets and these little ones are propaganda. Or something.
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    Re: Israeli air strikes target Gaza

    Quote Originally Posted by moe View Post
    So rather than ethnic cleansing via Military force we do it through political means? We just all gather at the UN and decide ok the nation of Israel no longer exists and poof it is gone? Problem solved??

    And then we should perhaps do like some Indians tribes in America used to do. When a person of the tribe was seen as no longer beneficial to the tribe they just pretended that person does not exist.

    You could not not talk to them or acknowledge their existence in way shape or form. If they spoke to you, you pretended like nothing was there. Is this what you are saying that we should do with Israel?

    We politically decide that they are stateless and if they refuse to leave Palestine we just pretend that they do not exist and let the Muslims move in and do what they wish with these non existent people?
    I do not understand what is it that you are saying here and not sure it is relevant to what I wrote. I said Ethnic cleansing does not work regardless how it is done. Killing does not work too and this goes for both sides. Bombing Buildings, universities and Police stations is not going to distroy Hamas or have the people abandon them. To the contrary, it will increase their support world wide and diminish Abbas authority in the west bank.

    If you are not aware, there are Palestinians who are Christains. They numbered about 20% in 1948. They completely share the desire to be free and the desire to self determination with their Muslim country people and their suffering is the same as the muslims.

    The issue for the the majority of the Palestinians is the LAND. People (with agendas) can spin it any way they want and repeat propaganda they hear, but that is not going to change the fact that this dispute is about Land ownership from the Paleestinian side.They would have done the same thing had Argentina occupied Palestine. Even Hamas in its charter labels the dispute as being based on Land.

    Quote Originally Posted by moe View Post
    You are aware that the Muslim definition of Palestine means every square inch of soil that Israel exists on today right? Not just certain areas. To them ALL of Israel is on Palestinian soil.
    Yes, that is historical Palestine, but the Majority of the Palestinians have accepted the 22% of it that is known as the west bank and Gaza. Does a Palestinian refugee who lives in Lebanon want to go back to his land that he was expelled from in 1948? You bet he does. Will he be able to do it? No.


    Quote Originally Posted by moe View Post
    That is why no matter how much land Israel has given in the past the Muslims demand more. The objective is not to get part of it but to get all of it. Even if the state of Israel consisted of just one city block to the Militant Arabs that is one block to big.

    Moe
    This arguement that the Palestinians would not accept but the whole thing is often used to justify Israel keeping the whole thing. It shows deep inside that those who argue this logic IMO believe that Israel existed on other people land therefore they assume that the Palis will not accept but the whole thing. You know things change and people adopt.

    Israel has not effectively given any Palestinian Land back. They only withdraw from inside Gaza because the cost of staying inside was too high, it was purely for self interest and it was done from one side, Sharon even refused to negotiate with the PA on how to hand it back, the only thing he negotiated was the amount of money that he got from the US in order to vacate the settlements. Israel maintained its authority over the air and the sea. There are over 450 road blocks in the west bank, i think you know palestinians in the west bank do not fire rockets into civilian areas, yet Israel maintains the road blocks.
    Last edited by SquareMelon; 12-29-08 at 09:55 PM.
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