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Thread: Israeli air strikes target Gaza

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    Re: Israeli air strikes target Gaza

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    I hope they do. It was a mistake not to finish off Hizbollah. They are more firmly entrenched in Lebanon than ever. Finishing them off not only would have helped Israel, but also Lebanon. Finishing off Hamas will not only help Israel, but also both the Palestinians and Egypt as well.
    I think this may be a two pronged gambit. One, to finally deal with Hamas. The other, to try to defuse the looming threat of a nuclear armed Iran.
    Last edited by bhkad; 12-29-08 at 09:32 AM.

    OBL 11/24/02

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    Re: Israeli air strikes target Gaza

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    The blockade has been eased. link
    has been briefly eased. It's over now, there are tanks everywhere

    Israel should NOT completely withdraw from the West Bank until it has reasoanble assurances that the territory will not be used to launch attacks against Israel.
    then there will never be peace, that's quite simple

    As for the right to use force, Israel has it now. They are exercising their inherent right to self-defense, confirmed by Article 51 of the UN Charter.
    yes, but self defense must be proportionate. That is not the case. That's why the UN condemns Israel
    UN rights chief: Israeli force 'disproportionate' - International Herald Tribune

    If someone kicks you, you have the right to kick back, but you don't have the right to kill him with a flamethrower. That's simple to understand, isn't it?

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    Re: Israeli air strikes target Gaza

    Quote Originally Posted by bub View Post
    has been briefly eased. It's over now, there are tanks everywhere



    then there will never be peace, that's quite simple



    yes, but self defense must be proportionate. That is not the case. That's why the UN condemns Israel
    UN rights chief: Israeli force 'disproportionate' - International Herald Tribune

    If someone kicks you, you have the right to kick back, but you don't have the right to kill him with a flamethrower. That's simple to understand, isn't it?
    Proportionality assures future attacks and ongoing violence.

    Disproportionate retaliation has the goal of stopping the violence by making the initiator conclude he can not afford the game of tit for tat.

    OBL 11/24/02

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    Re: Israeli air strikes target Gaza

    Quote Originally Posted by bhkad View Post
    Disproportionate retaliation has the goal of stopping the violence by making the initiator conclude he can not afford the game of tit for tat.
    If it was true, Hamas would have stopped violence a long time ago

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    Re: Israeli air strikes target Gaza

    Quote Originally Posted by bub View Post
    However, did you know that the Hamas rockets have killed 1 Israeli and wounded 8 (which is not acceptable) but in 3 days, 51 Palestinian civilians have been killed!
    Two points are in order:

    1) Hamas has carried out indiscriminate rocket attacks. Civilians have often been deliberate targets for Hamas. Israel has targeted Hamas' installations, security installations, etc. Those targets are legitimate military objectives.

    2) Hamas has placed its facilities, weapons, and personnel in the midst of civilians. Hamas bears complete responsibility for civilian casualties that result when Hamas' installations, weapons, and operatives are targeted. The fact that the Gaza Strip is densely populated does not excuse Hamas of its responsibility. Hamas has been engaging in human shielding and it bears whole responsibility for the consequences of that practice.

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    Re: Israeli air strikes target Gaza

    Both sides have a religious mandate driving them towards unilateral occupation of the land. Israel just happens to be the more powerful. The problem won't end until one side is eliminated since both sides are hindered by blind ignorance.

    In response to the claims that a few hundred dead is a small number... it's not really a small number in an area smaller than downtown Ottawa. Plus, violence begets more violence.

    I see the turn this is taking, but I still refuse to support either side. Both are fraught with savagery.

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    Re: Israeli air strikes target Gaza

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    Two points are in order:

    1) Hamas has carried out indiscriminate rocket attacks. Civilians have often been deliberate targets for Hamas.
    Yeah but what does Hamas uses? Home-made rockets! Anyway the result is more important: Israel has killed fifty one times more civilians than the Hamas.
    Israel has targeted Hamas' installations, security installations, etc. Those targets are legitimate military objectives.
    The way they do it is out of any proportionality, that's why Israel is condemned worldwide.

    2) Hamas has placed its facilities, weapons, and personnel in the midst of civilians. Hamas bears complete responsibility for civilian casualties that result when Hamas' installations, weapons, and operatives are targeted. The fact that the Gaza Strip is densely populated does not excuse Hamas of its responsibility. Hamas has been engaging in human shielding and it bears whole responsibility for the consequences of that practice.
    THEY ARE POLICEMEN! It's impossible that they are not in the middle of civilians. And anyway it's useless to kill them, Hamas won't be destroyed with missiles.

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    Re: Israeli air strikes target Gaza

    Quote Originally Posted by bub View Post
    Yeah but what does Hamas uses? Home-made rockets! Anyway the result is more important: Israel has killed fifty one times more civilians than the Hamas.


    The way they do it is out of any proportionality, that's why Israel is condemned worldwide.



    THEY ARE POLICEMEN! It's impossible that they are not in the middle of civilians. And anyway it's useless to kill them, Hamas won't be destroyed with missiles.
    At some point the mothers of Gaza must decide they no longer wish to see their children die for Hamas.

    OBL 11/24/02

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    Re: Israeli air strikes target Gaza

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    Both sides have a religious mandate driving them towards unilateral occupation of the land. Israel just happens to be the more powerful. The problem won't end until one side is eliminated since both sides are hindered by blind ignorance.

    In response to the claims that a few hundred dead is a small number... it's not really a small number in an area smaller than downtown Ottawa. Plus, violence begets more violence.

    I see the turn this is taking, but I still refuse to support either side. Both are fraught with savagery.
    Please post proof that Israel is unwilling to share occupancy of the territory.

    OBL 11/24/02

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