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Thread: Israeli air strikes target Gaza

  1. #1401
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    Re: Israeli air strikes target Gaza

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    No they don't.
    You can be blind to it all you like, but it does not change the fact they want every Jewish person in Israel dead, period. Nothing less will stop it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    Why would those in power in Hamas personally attack Israel and Israeli forces?
    "GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip Thousands of Israeli troops backed by columns of tanks and helicopter gunships launched a ground offensive in Gaza Saturday night with officials saying they expected a lengthy fight in the densely populated territory after eight days of punishing airstrikes failed to halt militant rocket attacks on Israel." - Israeli ground troops invade Gaza to halt rockets - Yahoo! News

    "Exiled Hamas leader Khaled Meshaal said from Damascus Friday that his militant group was prepared for an Israeli ground invasion of the Gaza Strip and could abduct abduct more soldiers if Israel attempts the incursion. - FOXNews.com - Hamas Threatens to Kidnap Israeli Soldiers in Case of Ground Incursion - International News | News of the World | Middle East News | Europe News

    "Two IDF soldiers were moderately wounded and 11 others were lightly wounded Saturday morning at the Kerem Shalom crossing in the southern Gaza Strip, when Hamas gunmen initiated a coordinated attack on the Israeli side of the crossing, which included heavy gunfire, mortar shell barrages and two car bombs." - 13 soldiers hurt in Kerem Shalom attack | Israel | Jerusalem Post

    Well that statement is obviously not true.

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    It is not about the land. It is about the displacement of the palestinians.
    You are correct insofar as it is no longer about the land. It is about the extermination of the Israeli state.

  2. #1402
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    Re: Israeli air strikes target Gaza

    What were they displaced from?
    What I'm saying that it isn't about who owns the land; the conflict originates in the displacements of millions of people. It originates in the act of displacement. To say that it is about land implies that the Palestinians are entitled to some kind of ownership, which completely ignores the very definition of ownership.

    You can be blind to it all you like, but it does not change the fact they want every Jewish person in Israel dead, period. Nothing less will stop it.
    Yes, because every Palestinian wants to kill all the Jews...

    "GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip Thousands of Israeli troops backed by columns of tanks and helicopter gunships launched a ground offensive in Gaza Saturday night with officials saying they expected a lengthy fight in the densely populated territory after eight days of punishing airstrikes failed to halt militant rocket attacks on Israel." - Israeli ground troops invade Gaza to halt rockets - Yahoo! News

    "Exiled Hamas leader Khaled Meshaal said from Damascus Friday that his militant group was prepared for an Israeli ground invasion of the Gaza Strip and could abduct abduct more soldiers if Israel attempts the incursion. - FOXNews.com - Hamas Threatens to Kidnap Israeli Soldiers in Case of Ground Incursion - International News | News of the World | Middle East News | Europe News

    "Two IDF soldiers were moderately wounded and 11 others were lightly wounded Saturday morning at the Kerem Shalom crossing in the southern Gaza Strip, when Hamas gunmen initiated a coordinated attack on the Israeli side of the crossing, which included heavy gunfire, mortar shell barrages and two car bombs." - 13 soldiers hurt in Kerem Shalom attack | Israel | Jerusalem Post

    Well that statement is obviously not true.
    Except those aren't the leaders of Hamas, to which I was referring. Good job completely missing my point.

  3. #1403
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    Re: Israeli air strikes target Gaza

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    But when Palestinians attack civilians it is a terrible thing? Despite the fact these civilians are actually living on the land that was stolen from the Palestinians.
    That land NEVER belonged to the Palestinians. There has NEVER been a Palestinian state. Hamas indistriminantly sent rockets into civilian areas to kill civilians. Israel MUST attack "civilian" areas because Hamas cowards hide behind them.

    Personally I think that we should be consistent and chivalrous and rule out all attacks on civilians even if they may be being used to hide military objects.
    The two are not the same.

    1. Hamas attacks civilians for the sole purpose of killing civilians.
    2. Israel attacks "civilian" areas because Hamas hides their war supplies in those areas.

    They are manifestly NOT the same.
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    Re: Israeli air strikes target Gaza

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    No they don't.



    Why would those in power in Hamas personally attack Israel and Israeli forces?
    Because they want to destroy Israel, that is why. READ THEIR CHARTER!

    It is not about the land. It is about the displacement of the palestinians.
    In Gaza? The Israelis already disbanded their settlements.
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    Re: Israeli air strikes target Gaza

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    What I'm saying that it isn't about who owns the land; the conflict originates in the displacements of millions of people. It originates in the act of displacement. To say that it is about land implies that the Palestinians are entitled to some kind of ownership, which completely ignores the very definition of ownership.
    They were displaced after the Arabs unsuccessfully tried to exterminate the nascent Jewish State in 1948!

    Yes, because every Palestinian wants to kill all the Jews...
    Sadly, a good number of them do, and that is the clearly stated goal of Hamas.
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    Re: Israeli air strikes target Gaza

    Because they want to destroy Israel, that is why. READ THEIR CHARTER!
    Come on, why is my point so hard to understand? It is that the leadership of Hamas trains the rank-and-file to actually carry out the dirty work (suicide bombings, rocket attacks, fighting the IDF, etc...) while they sit back and benefit.

    In Gaza?
    No, in Israel-Palestine.

  7. #1407
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    Re: Israeli air strikes target Gaza

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    What I'm saying that it isn't about who owns the land; the conflict originates in the displacements of millions of people. It originates in the act of displacement. To say that it is about land implies that the Palestinians are entitled to some kind of ownership, which completely ignores the very definition of ownership.
    Displacement from the land or area.

    I don't really wish to get into an argument about the evils of private property and private land ownership, I think we are though coming from a similar angle.
    Last edited by Wessexman; 01-04-09 at 04:22 AM.
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    Re: Israeli air strikes target Gaza

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    That land NEVER belonged to the Palestinians. There has NEVER been a Palestinian state. Hamas indistriminantly sent rockets into civilian areas to kill civilians. Israel MUST attack "civilian" areas because Hamas cowards hide behind them.
    The land belonged to the Palestinians individually and collectively, the fact they never had a nation state does not change this fact unless you are arguing that the right to property comes only from the state. Was there no private property before the rise of the nation state in early modern times?

    That belief would certainly be contrary to Catholic social teaching.

    The two are not the same.

    1. Hamas attacks civilians for the sole purpose of killing civilians.
    2. Israel attacks "civilian" areas because Hamas hides their war supplies in those areas.

    They are manifestly NOT the same.
    However Israel has moved its civilians onto the stolen land, and then claims this land can't be attacked because it is civilian! It is very similar.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  9. #1409
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    Re: Israeli air strikes target Gaza

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    The land belonged to the Palestinians individually and collectively, the fact they never had a nation state does not change this fact unless you are arguing that the right to property comes only from the state. Was there no private property before the rise of the nation state in early modern times?
    It was part of the Ottoman Empire. Check Ottoman land policy.

    That belief would certainly be contrary to Catholic social teaching.
    This is not a Catholic part of the world. It had been part of the Ottoman Empire for centuries.

    However Israel has moved its civilians onto the stolen land, and then claims this land can't be attacked because it is civilian! It is very similar.
    Stolen from whom? The territory belonged to the Ottoman Empire. The League of Nations then assigned it as a Mandate to the United Kingdom. As the successor to the LofN, the UN passed a two-state solution which the Jews accepted but the Arabs did not.
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    Re: Israeli air strikes target Gaza

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    It was part of the Ottoman Empire. Check Ottoman land policy.

    This is not a Catholic part of the world. It had been part of the Ottoman Empire for centuries.
    You are mistaking statehood for property rights. Catholic social teaching is a general thing, it include respect for private property and a belief it does not come from the state alone.

    Stolen from whom? The territory belonged to the Ottoman Empire. The League of Nations then assigned it as a Mandate to the United Kingdom. As the successor to the LofN, the UN passed a two-state solution which the Jews accepted but the Arabs did not.
    The land was owned individually and collectively by the Palestinians. Does the fact they did not have a state mean that the house a Palestinian family had owned for centuries was not theirs?
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

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