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Thread: Major Israeli settlement 'unlawful'

  1. #61
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    Re: Major Israeli settlement 'unlawful'

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post

    You can't just label one side as the victim and the other as the aggressor. Both sides are guilty of atrocities, and I am tired of the one-sidedness coming from Western observers just because they have been spoon fed propaganda about how righteous Israel is.
    One can see these one sided arguements even in this thread. It is called the “Virtuous Israelis” versus “Evil Palestinian/Arabs”. Violence had been used by both parties, assigning blame depends on when you start counting and when you stop. A little description of the 1948 events illustrates the problem with this one sided arguement.


    The final moral argument portrays Israel as a country that has sought peace at every turn and showed great restraint even when provoked. The Arabs, by
    contrast, are said to have acted with great wickedness. This narrativ—which is endlessly repeated by Israeli leaders and American apologists such as Alan
    Dershowitz—is yet another myth. In terms of actual behavior, Israel’s conduct
    is not morally distinguishable from the actions of its opponents. Israeli scholarship shows that the early Zionists were far from benevolent
    towards the Palestinian Arabs. The Arab inhabitants did resist the Zionists’
    encroachments, which is hardly surprising given that the Zionists were trying to create their own state on Arab lands. The Zionists responded vigorously, and neither side owns the moral high ground during this period.This same
    scholarship also reveals that the creation of Israel in 1947‐48 involved explicit
    acts of ethnic cleansing, including executions, massacres, and rapes by Jews.
    Furthermore, Israel’s subsequent conduct towards its Arab adversaries and its
    Palestinian subjects has often been brutal, belying any claim to morally superior conduct. Between 1949 and 1956, for example, Israeli security forces killed between 2,700 and 5000 Arab infiltrators, the overwhelming majority of them unarmed.The IDF conducted numerous cross‐border raids against its neighbors in the early 1950s, and though these actions were portrayed as defensive responses, they were actually part of a broader effort to expand Israel’s borders. Israel’s expansionist ambitions also led it to join Britain and France in attacking Egypt in 1956, and Israel withdrew from the lands it had conquered only in the face of intense U.S. pressure.

    The IDF also murdered hundreds of Egyptian prisoners‐of‐war in both the 1956
    and 1967 wars.46 In 1967, it expelled between 100,000 and 260,000 Palestinians from the newly‐conquered West Bank, and drove 80,000 Syrians from the Golan Heights. It was also complicit in the massacre of 700 innocent Palestinians at the Sabra and Shatila refugee camps following its invasion of Lebanon in 1982, and an Israeli investigatory commission found then‐Defence Minister Sharon “personally responsible” for these atrocities.
    The fact that the creation of Israel entailed a moral crime against the Palestinian people was well understood by Israel’s leaders. As Ben‐Gurion told Nahum Goldmann, president of the World Jewish Congress, “If I were an Arab leader I would never make terms with Israel. That is natural: we have taken their country. . . . We come from Israel, but two thousand years ago, and what is that to them? There has been anti‐Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They only see one thing: we have come here and stolen their country. Why should they accept that?”

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  2. #62
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    Re: Major Israeli settlement 'unlawful'

    Quote Originally Posted by bub View Post
    # Resolution 1701 (11 August 2006) called for the full cessation of hostilities between Israel and Hezbollah.
    Just looking at this last one, who was responsible for those hostilities?
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    Re: Major Israeli settlement 'unlawful'

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Just looking at this last one, who was responsible for those hostilities?
    oh but I've never said that one side had clean hands.
    just that if you quote the UN, then you should also quote the parts you don't agree with

  4. #64
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    Re: Major Israeli settlement 'unlawful'

    Quote Originally Posted by bub View Post
    oh but I've never said that one side had clean hands.
    just that if you quote the UN, then you should also quote the parts you don't agree with
    I simply cited the UN Charter. Article 51 grants the right to self-defense, which Israel is exercising. I did not say Israel was completely clean, but they have the right to defend their existance and I wholeheartedly support that right. The onus is now on the Arabs to show that they want to live in peace with Israel, NOT the other way around.
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    Re: Major Israeli settlement 'unlawful'

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Except that Iran's leadership repeatedly threatens Israel and states that it needs to be wiped off the map.
    And you don't think Iran is aware of AIPAC's lobbying to Congress to authorize a military strike? This position that Israel is the passive one and arab states are the only aggressor's is horse****!

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    Re: Major Israeli settlement 'unlawful'

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Just looking at this last one, who was responsible for those hostilities?
    Iran --- by proxy through Hizballah.

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    Re: Major Israeli settlement 'unlawful'

    Quote Originally Posted by Billo_Really View Post
    And you don't think Iran is aware of AIPAC's lobbying to Congress to authorize a military strike? This position that Israel is the passive one and arab states are the only aggressor's is horse****!
    Typical liberal assesment of the situation.


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    Re: Major Israeli settlement 'unlawful'

    Quote Originally Posted by Vader View Post
    Typical liberal assesment of the situation.

    And your position is that Israel walks on water and can do no wrong? Tell me, if someone was looking at our two positions objectively, do you really think, they'd think, my position was the one that was more fanatically extreme?

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    Re: Major Israeli settlement 'unlawful'

    If the Palestinians weren't so accustomed to hand outs they would build stores and services that cater to the Jews in the area and be happy. More people equals more stores and services for everybody.

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    Re: Major Israeli settlement 'unlawful'

    This arab-jew story is as old as time. Who really gives a **** what these two sides do to each other in the name of their gods?
    It's nothing more than X's and O's.

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