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Major Israeli settlement 'unlawful'

Laila said:
To Middle Eastern countries including Iran. It has used military actions more times than any other country within that region. It has killed more civilians and done more damage to other countries more than ever has been done to them.
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Israel has had to resort to military actions because it has repeatedly been attacked by its neighbors. Do you expect Israel to do NOTHING in response to repeated rocket attacks and other violations of its security?

Not anymore
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There has NEVER been a independent Palestinian state.

Israel has done its fair share so neither side is exactly innocent.
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Israel has the right under the UN Charter to defend itself. It's existance is at stake. The same can not be said for any other state in the region (except Lebanon - but Israel has little to go with that situation)
 
ludahai said:
Do you expect Israel to do NOTHING in response to repeated rocket attacks and other violations of its security?
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I expect it to show restraint not starve every Palestinians for the actions of a few.

Israel has the right under the UN Charter to defend itself. It's existance is at stake. The same can not be said for any other state in the region (except Lebanon - but Israel has little to go with that situation)
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Its highly sensationalized, Israel is there to stay. Everyone knows its. I think it uses the excuse its existence is in danger [which would be impossible with US at its side]
 
Laila said:
I expect it to show restraint not starve every Palestinians for the actions of a few.
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Sorry, Israel needs to cut off supplies to the terrorists. If the terrorists want to hide behind innocent people, those innocent people should do something about it. Remember, those people voted for Hamas. They are getting what they asked for.

Its highly sensationalized, Israel is there to stay. Everyone knows its. I think it uses the excuse its existence is in danger [which would be impossible with US at its side]
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Israel is there to stay because it is willing to do what is necessary to protect its people and its existance, NOT because of the goodwill of its Arab neighbors.
 
ludahai said:
Sorry, Israel needs to cut off supplies to the terrorists. If the terrorists want to hide behind innocent people, those innocent people should do something about it. Remember, those people voted for Hamas. They are getting what they asked for.
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Israel has succeeded in making itself out even worse in the Arab world.
It has hit a new low, starving children and blocking medical is something i'd expect from Taliban and Al Qaeda

Israel is there to stay because it is willing to do what is necessary to protect its people and its existance, NOT because of the goodwill of its Arab neighbors.
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Israel is there to stay because it has support from United States and has ensured that its military can defend itself.
Do you expect goodwill to be given to Israel by ME or even Muslim countries? Seriously?
 
Laila said:
Israel has succeeded in making itself out even worse in the Arab world.
It has hit a new low, starving children and blocking medical is something i'd expect from Taliban and Al Qaeda
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What alternative does Israel have considering that any supplies that get through will also get to the terrorists.

Israel is there to stay because it has support from United States and has ensured that its military can defend itself.
Do you expect goodwill to be given to Israel by ME or even Muslim countries? Seriously?
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The problem is the Arabs, NOT Israel. Once the Arabs accept that Israel is there to stay and has the right to live in security, then we can talk. Short of that, Israel has the right to protect itself from those who would try to destroy her.
 
ludahai said:
What alternative does Israel have considering that any supplies that get through will also get to the terrorists.
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I don't know but i do know angering the Palestinians further does not help them at all.

The problem is the Arabs, NOT Israel. Once the Arabs accept that Israel is there to stay and has the right to live in security, then we can talk. Short of that, Israel has the right to protect itself from those who would try to destroy her.
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Israel also has the fair share of the blame. It is not only Arab's fault.
Arabs should recognise Israel but after Israel withdraws to previous UN borders, dismantles all illegal settlements and preferably give back Al Asqa.
 
Laila said:
I don't know but i do know angering the Palestinians further does not help them at all.
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If you don't have a solution, then keep silent until you do. The Israel government is doing what it has to do to protect its people.

Israel also has the fair share of the blame. It is not only Arab's fault.
Arabs should recognise Israel but after Israel withdraws to previous UN borders, dismantles all illegal settlements and preferably give back Al Asqa.
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Israel tried that with Gaza and look where it has gotten them!
 
ludahai said:
Israel tried that with Gaza and look where it has gotten them!
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Israel has withdrawn to UN borders, given back the soverign land of Arab countries and dismantled all illegal settlements? I think not.

No one has the solution for this conflict, why do you think it is still going on :roll:
 
Laila said:
Israel has withdrawn to UN borders, given back the soverign land of Arab countries and dismantled all illegal settlements? I think not.

No one has the solution for this conflict, why do you think it is still going on :roll:
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Israel took an important first step a few years ago by withdrawing from Gaza, and all they get for their troubles is more rocket attacks into southern Israel and incursions from the north.

Israel has taken a step in the right direction, and not only have the Arabs not recipricated, they have stepped up the pressure.
 
ludahai said:
Israel has the right under the UN Charter to defend itself. It's existance is at stake. The same can not be said for any other state in the region (except Lebanon - but Israel has little to go with that situation)
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The UN says a lot of other things, too:

List of United Nations resolutions concerning Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

# Resolution 111: " ... 'condemns' Israel for raid on Syria that killed fifty-six people".
# Resolution 127: " ... 'recommends' Israel suspends its 'no-man's zone' in Jerusalem".
# Resolution 162: " ... 'urges' Israel to comply with UN decisions".
# Resolution 171: " ... determines flagrant violations' by Israel in its attack on Syria".
# Resolution 228: " ... 'censures' Israel for its attack on Samu in the West Bank, then under Jordanian control".
# Resolution 237: " ... 'urges' Israel to allow return of new 1967 Palestinian refugees".
# Resolution 242 (November 22, 1967): Termination of all claims or states of belligerency and respect for and acknowledgement of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every State in the area. Calls on Israel's neighbors to end the state of belligerency and calls upon Israel to reciprocate by withdraw its forces from land claimed by other parties in 1967 war. Interpreted commonly today as calling for the Land for peace principle as a way to resolve Arab-Israeli conflict
# Resolution 248: " ... 'condemns' Israel for its massive attack on Karameh in Jordan".
# Resolution 250: " ... 'calls' on Israel to refrain from holding military parade in Jerusalem".
# Resolution 251: " ... 'deeply deplores' Israeli military parade in Jerusalem in defiance of Resolution 250".
# Resolution 252: " ... 'declares invalid' Israel's acts to unify Jerusalem as Jewish capital".
# Resolution 256: " ... 'condemns' Israeli raids on Jordan as 'flagrant violation".
# Resolution 259: " ... 'deplores' Israel's refusal to accept UN mission to probe occupation".
# Resolution 262: " ... 'condemns' Israel for attack on Beirut airport".
# Resolution 265: " ... 'condemns' Israel for air attacks for Salt in Jordan".
# Resolution 267: " ... 'censures' Israel for administrative acts to change the status of Jerusalem".
# Resolution 270: " ... 'condemns' Israel for air attacks on villages in southern Lebanon".
# Resolution 271: " ... 'condemns' Israel's failure to obey UN resolutions on Jerusalem".
# Resolution 279: " ... 'demands' withdrawal of Israeli forces from Lebanon".
# Resolution 280: " ... 'condemns' Israeli's attacks against Lebanon".
# Resolution 285: " ... 'demands' immediate Israeli withdrawal form Lebanon".
# Resolution 298: " ... 'deplores' Israel's changing of the status of Jerusalem".
# Resolution 313: " ... 'demands' that Israel stop attacks against Lebanon".
# Resolution 316: " ... 'condemns' Israel for repeated attacks on Lebanon".
# Resolution 317: " ... 'deplores' Israel's refusal to release Arabs abducted in Lebanon".
# Resolution 332: " ... 'condemns' Israel's repeated attacks against Lebanon".
# Resolution 337: " ... 'condemns' Israel for violating Lebanon's sovereignty".
# Resolution 338 (22 October 1973): cease fire in Yom Kippur War
# Resolution 339 (23 October 1973): Confirms Res. 338, dispatch UN observers.
# Resolution 347: " ... 'condemns' Israeli attacks on Lebanon".
# Resolution 3379: "...'establishes' Zionism as a form of racism and racial discrimination". Repealed by Resolution 46/86.
# Resolution 425 (1978): " ... 'calls' on Israel to withdraw its forces from Lebanon". Israel's withdrawal from Lebanon was completed as of 16 June 2000.
# Resolution 350 (31 May 1974) established the United Nations Disengagement Observer Force, to monitor the ceasefire between Israel and Syria in the wake of the Yom Kippur War.
# Resolution 427: " ... 'calls' on Israel to complete its withdrawal from Lebanon".
# Resolution 444: " ... 'deplores' Israel's lack of cooperation with UN peacekeeping forces".
# Resolution 446 (1979): 'determines' that Israeli settlements are a 'serious obstruction' to peace and calls on Israel to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention".
# Resolution 450: " ... 'calls' on Israel to stop attacking Lebanon".
# Resolution 452: " ... 'calls' on Israel to cease building settlements in occupied territories".
# Resolution 465: " ... 'deplores' Israel's settlements and asks all member states not to assist Israel's settlements program".
# Resolution 467: " ... 'strongly deplores' Israel's military intervention in Lebanon".
# Resolution 468: " ... 'calls' on Israel to rescind illegal expulsions of two Palestinian mayors and a judge and to facilitate their return".
# Resolution 469: " ... 'strongly deplores' Israel's failure to observe the council's order not to deport Palestinians".
# Resolution 471: " ... 'expresses deep concern' at Israel's failure to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention".
# Resolution 476: " ... 'reiterates' that Israel's claim to Jerusalem are 'null and void'".
# Resolution 478 (20 August 1980): 'censures (Israel) in the strongest terms' for its claim to Jerusalem in its 'Basic Law'.
# Resolution 484: " ... 'declares it imperative' that Israel re-admit two deported Palestinian mayors".
# Resolution 487: " ... 'strongly condemns' Israel for its attack on Iraq's nuclear facility".
# Resolution 497 (17 December 1981) decides that Israel's annexation of Syria's Golan Heights is 'null and void' and demands that Israel rescinds its decision forthwith.
# Resolution 498: " ... 'calls' on Israel to withdraw from Lebanon".
# Resolution 501: " ... 'calls' on Israel to stop attacks against Lebanon and withdraw its troops".
# Resolution 508:
# Resolution 509: " ... 'demands' that Israel withdraw its forces forthwith and unconditionally from Lebanon".
# Resolution 515: " ... 'demands' that Israel lift its siege of Beirut and allow food supplies to be brought in".
# Resolution 517: " ... 'censures' Israel for failing to obey UN resolutions and demands that Israel withdraw its forces from Lebanon".
# Resolution 518: " ... 'demands' that Israel cooperate fully with UN forces in Lebanon".
# Resolution 520: " ... 'condemns' Israel's attack into West Beirut".
# Resolution 573: " ... 'condemns' Israel 'vigorously' for bombing Tunisia in attack on PLO headquarters.
# Resolution 587 " ... 'takes note' of previous calls on Israel to withdraw its forces from Lebanon and urges all parties to withdraw".
# Resolution 592: " ... 'strongly deplores' the killing of Palestinian students at Bir Zeit University by Israeli troops".
# Resolution 605: " ... 'strongly deplores' Israel's policies and practices denying the human rights of Palestinians.
# Resolution 607: " ... 'calls' on Israel not to deport Palestinians and strongly requests it to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention.
# Resolution 608: " ... 'deeply regrets' that Israel has defied the United Nations and deported Palestinian civilians".
# Resolution 636: " ... 'deeply regrets' Israeli deportation of Palestinian civilians.
# Resolution 641: " ... 'deplores' Israel's continuing deportation of Palestinians.
# Resolution 672: " ... 'condemns' Israel for "violence against Palestinians" at the Haram al-Sharif/Temple Mount.
# Resolution 673: " ... 'deplores' Israel's refusal to cooperate with the United Nations.
# Resolution 681: " ... 'deplores' Israel's resumption of the deportation of Palestinians.
# Resolution 694: " ... 'deplores' Israel's deportation of Palestinians and calls on it to ensure their safe and immediate return.
# Resolution 726: " ... 'strongly condemns' Israel's deportation of Palestinians.
# Resolution 799: ". . . 'strongly condemns' Israel's deportation of 413 Palestinians and calls for their immediate return.
# Resolution 1559 (2 September 2004) called upon Lebanon to establish its sovereignty over all of its land and called upon Syria to end their military presence in Lebanon by withdrawing its forces and to cease intervening in internal Lebanese politics. The resolution also called on all Lebanese militias to disband.
# Resolution 1583 (28 January 2005) calls on Lebanon to assert full control over its border with Israel. It also states that "the Council has recognized the Blue Line as valid for the purpose of confirming Israel's withdrawal pursuant to resolution 425.
# Resolution 1648 (21 December 2005) renewed the mandate of United Nations Disengagement Observer Force until 30 June 2006.
# Resolution 1701 (11 August 2006) called for the full cessation of hostilities between Israel and Hezbollah.
 
Orius said:
You can't just label one side as the victim and the other as the aggressor. Both sides are guilty of atrocities, and I am tired of the one-sidedness coming from Western observers just because they have been spoon fed propaganda about how righteous Israel is.
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One can see these one sided arguements even in this thread. It is called the “Virtuous Israelis” versus “Evil Palestinian/Arabs”. Violence had been used by both parties, assigning blame depends on when you start counting and when you stop. A little description of the 1948 events illustrates the problem with this one sided arguement.


The final moral argument portrays Israel as a country that has sought peace at every turn and showed great restraint even when provoked. The Arabs, by
contrast, are said to have acted with great wickedness. This narrativ—which is endlessly repeated by Israeli leaders and American apologists such as Alan
Dershowitz—is yet another myth. In terms of actual behavior, Israel’s conduct
is not morally distinguishable from the actions of its opponents. Israeli scholarship shows that the early Zionists were far from benevolent
towards the Palestinian Arabs. The Arab inhabitants did resist the Zionists’
encroachments, which is hardly surprising given that the Zionists were trying to create their own state on Arab lands. The Zionists responded vigorously, and neither side owns the moral high ground during this period.This same
scholarship also reveals that the creation of Israel in 1947‐48 involved explicit
acts of ethnic cleansing, including executions, massacres, and rapes by Jews.
Furthermore, Israel’s subsequent conduct towards its Arab adversaries and its
Palestinian subjects has often been brutal, belying any claim to morally superior conduct. Between 1949 and 1956, for example, Israeli security forces killed between 2,700 and 5000 Arab infiltrators, the overwhelming majority of them unarmed.The IDF conducted numerous cross‐border raids against its neighbors in the early 1950s, and though these actions were portrayed as defensive responses, they were actually part of a broader effort to expand Israel’s borders. Israel’s expansionist ambitions also led it to join Britain and France in attacking Egypt in 1956, and Israel withdrew from the lands it had conquered only in the face of intense U.S. pressure.

The IDF also murdered hundreds of Egyptian prisoners‐of‐war in both the 1956
and 1967 wars.46 In 1967, it expelled between 100,000 and 260,000 Palestinians from the newly‐conquered West Bank, and drove 80,000 Syrians from the Golan Heights. It was also complicit in the massacre of 700 innocent Palestinians at the Sabra and Shatila refugee camps following its invasion of Lebanon in 1982, and an Israeli investigatory commission found then‐Defence Minister Sharon “personally responsible” for these atrocities.
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The fact that the creation of Israel entailed a moral crime against the Palestinian people was well understood by Israel’s leaders. As Ben‐Gurion told Nahum Goldmann, president of the World Jewish Congress, “If I were an Arab leader I would never make terms with Israel. That is natural: we have taken their country. . . . We come from Israel, but two thousand years ago, and what is that to them? There has been anti‐Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They only see one thing: we have come here and stolen their country. Why should they accept that?”
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More Here
 
ludahai said:
Just looking at this last one, who was responsible for those hostilities?
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oh but I've never said that one side had clean hands.
just that if you quote the UN, then you should also quote the parts you don't agree with
 
bub said:
oh but I've never said that one side had clean hands.
just that if you quote the UN, then you should also quote the parts you don't agree with
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I simply cited the UN Charter. Article 51 grants the right to self-defense, which Israel is exercising. I did not say Israel was completely clean, but they have the right to defend their existance and I wholeheartedly support that right. The onus is now on the Arabs to show that they want to live in peace with Israel, NOT the other way around.
 
ludahai said:
Except that Iran's leadership repeatedly threatens Israel and states that it needs to be wiped off the map.
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And you don't think Iran is aware of AIPAC's lobbying to Congress to authorize a military strike? This position that Israel is the passive one and arab states are the only aggressor's is horse****!
 
Billo_Really said:
And you don't think Iran is aware of AIPAC's lobbying to Congress to authorize a military strike? This position that Israel is the passive one and arab states are the only aggressor's is horse****!
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Typical liberal assesment of the situation.

:mrgreen:
 
Vader said:
Typical liberal assesment of the situation.

:mrgreen:
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And your position is that Israel walks on water and can do no wrong? Tell me, if someone was looking at our two positions objectively, do you really think, they'd think, my position was the one that was more fanatically extreme?
 
If the Palestinians weren't so accustomed to hand outs they would build stores and services that cater to the Jews in the area and be happy. More people equals more stores and services for everybody.
 
This arab-jew story is as old as time. Who really gives a **** what these two sides do to each other in the name of their gods?
 
Billo_Really said:
And your position is that Israel walks on water and can do no wrong? Tell me, if someone was looking at our two positions objectively, do you really think, they'd think, my position was the one that was more fanatically extreme?
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Liberals tend to be unwilling to see a threat where on exists.

I never said Israel could do no wrong. I just said that Israel's retalitory attacks were the direct result of Palestinian terrorist activity.

I have also said the land belongs to both and that both Israel and Palestine have the right to exist.

The Palestinians seem to have a problem with this and are actively seeking the continuance of the final solution.

Maybe if your Palestinian buddies would cease their attacks on Israel and learn to be good neighbors the situation would improve.

Palestinian citizens have no trouble allowing their children to dress up like terrorists for the glorification of terrorists. This is a serious lack of common sense... i.e. the hallmark of brainwashing and religious interference in governmental affairs.

Peace will not be possible until the terrorists in Palestine are stopped. This means the Palestinian people have to decide they are tired of suffering retaliation drawn by the very terrorists they glorify.

Once their head is pops out of their ass and they take a breath of fresh, non-islamic terrorist influenced air, they may begin to see the issue for what it is.

Until then they will continue to suffer retalitory attacks caused by terrorist attacks on Israel.
 
sazerac said:
If the Palestinians weren't so accustomed to hand outs they would build stores and services that cater to the Jews in the area and be happy. More people equals more stores and services for everybody.
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A good point; however, these locations would then become targets for Hamas terrorists.

Nonetheless, this is a good idea. It creates ties between the two countries that could lead to peace.... provided that Hamas is not allowed to **** it up.
 
Billo_Really said:
All the Israeli settlements are unlawful.

There isn't a single country in the world that recognizes these settlements as Israeli territory. Including the Israeli Supreme Court.
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Yet more nonsensical liberal B.S.

You, Billo, are obviously the bastard child of Jimmy Carter!
 
Vader said:
Liberals tend to be unwilling to see a threat where on exists.
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Whereas people like you create threats where there weren't any.
Vader said:
I never said Israel could do no wrong. I just said that Israel's retalitory attacks were the direct result of Palestinian terrorist activity.
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And the "Palestinian terrorist activity" is a direct result of Israel occupying land that was taken in a war.

Vader said:
I have also said the land belongs to both and that both Israel and Palestine have the right to exist.
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Not land taken in a war. There are laws against that.

Vader said:
The Palestinians seem to have a problem with this and are actively seeking the continuance of the final solution.
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That's like Hitler saying the Jews are actively trying to exterminate Nazis.

Vader said:
Maybe if your Palestinian buddies would cease their attacks on Israel and learn to be good neighbors the situation would improve.
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More slander. Show me the post where I indicated such.

Vader said:
Palestinian citizens have no trouble allowing their children to dress up like terrorists for the glorification of terrorists. This is a serious lack of common sense... i.e. the hallmark of brainwashing and religious interference in governmental affairs.
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Like you never played army when you were a kid.

Vader said:
Peace will not be possible until the terrorists in Palestine are stopped. This means the Palestinian people have to decide they are tired of suffering retaliation drawn by the very terrorists they glorify.
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Punishing innocent men, women and children for the actions of a few is immoral and wrong.

Vader said:
Once their head is pops out of their ass and they take a breath of fresh, non-islamic terrorist influenced air, they may begin to see the issue for what it is.
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They might breathe YOUR air, which is far more toxic.

Vader said:
Until then they will continue to suffer retalitory attacks caused by terrorist attacks on Israel.
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The same could be said for Israel.
 
Vader said:
A good point; however, these locations would then become targets for Hamas terrorists.

Nonetheless, this is a good idea. It creates ties between the two countries that could lead to peace.... provided that Hamas is not allowed to **** it up.
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Yes wouldnt it be great if the people who lived there first just did what they were supposed to and made shops to serve their new ecenomic betters, Israel should only turn the power back on and let food through if they agree to serve israel in some helpful way.

I think this would foster great relations, maby if the Paletinians were lucky they could clean some of israels streets! that would be nice, but they shouldnt get paied untill they earned enough to pay back for all the terrorism they commited in the name of their intrinsicly evil god, and they should be forced to renounce Islam, because it only seems to be making terrorists these days.

israel has nukes too, I think they should really get on that, think how many terrorists you could kill with jsut one nuke! loads, I've always said the best way to fight terror is wiht guns and bombs etc, THESE SAVAGES ONLY UNDERSTAND WAR SO GIVE IT TO THEM.
 
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