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Thread: Guantanamo closure plan ordered

  1. #81
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    Re: Guantanamo closure plan ordered

    True.
    Smuggling was another way to get cash.
    The Clintons did turned a blind eye to it.

    Billions were garnered through the UN, and not only that, it gave Saddam the feeling of having bought off the UN. It hardened his position, and with it came war.

    Thank You UN.

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    Re: Guantanamo closure plan ordered

    PEU:
    You're a lost cause I can see.
    The following is sad.
    Really, really sad.

    I don't know what type of world you live in but it isn't this one.

    When facts and logic don;t work, I have no idea of how to reach people like you.
    Floating in a utopian cesspool of ignorance.

    A mind is a terrible thing to waste.

    Quote:
    He believed, and rightly so, that the deck was stacked in his favor. It was up to 911. After that the world changed.
    The deck was stacked in his favor.. sure if you think so. Country isolated, people starving, military run down, society only held in check with brutal force.. sure was soooo stacked in his favour.

    As for the world changing on 9/11.... not really. The US changed yes, but not the world, since we have been fighting terror in many forms since the 1920s. There was the Jewish terror in the 1920s and 30s, then there was the Nazi terror, then there was the various communist terror during the 1950s and 1960s, then there was the PLO and other Palestinian terror in the 1970s and 1980s, and then the commie Red Army and what not. Not to forget the Corsican terror groups and ETA. Yea, we have nooo experience in Europe (or its colonies/dependants) on terror... none, nada..

    Quote:
    We saw the potential of a IslamoNazi terrorist hooking up with a rogue nation that hated America. Saddam was right in their yard.
    Err... lets see.. an islamonazi terrorist hooking up with a rogue nation that is very non religious for the region, treats women relatively nicely (they could vote and join the army after all), or shack up with a rogue nation that is a religous nutjob state, shares the same values and even practices them...yea right.... I would choose the first of course...
    Quote:
    Connect the dots.
    You should actually, since you only jump from one right wing conspiracy theory to another, jumping over the actual facts. Why did you gloss over the fact that the head of the Iraqi WMD program defected to the West and said that the WMD were destroyed? And that documents found later after the war backed him up? Why did you gloss over the fact that the main intelligence source of the US, was an anti-Saddam pro Tehran Iraqi who we later found out totally screwed the US and told lie after lie?

  3. #83
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    Re: Guantanamo closure plan ordered

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus Zeebra View Post
    You believe they should not be under the Geneva convention, but prisoners even so.. They certainly didn't break any laws in the US so in this hypothetical case they would be "kidnapped foreigners" standing trial in the US.
    But they are not imprisoned for domestic crimes! They are not US citizens or LAWFUL combatants under the Geneva Conventions.

    Domestic criminals go to domestic jails and domestic courts. Criminals in combat zones go to different jails and use different courts. Its a whole different scenario and you seem to think they should be treated as equal because of some utopian and idealistic belief you possess.
    If you believe in the Supernatural then you can become a millionaire!

    Questioning or criticizing another's core beliefs is inadvertently perceived as offensive and rude.

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    Re: Guantanamo closure plan ordered

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    But they are not imprisoned for domestic crimes! They are not US citizens or LAWFUL combatants under the Geneva Conventions.

    Domestic criminals go to domestic jails and domestic courts. Criminals in combat zones go to different jails and use different courts. Its a whole different scenario and you seem to think they should be treated as equal because of some utopian and idealistic belief you possess.
    CONVENTION AGAINST TORTURE and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment
    Having regard to article 5 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and article 7 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, both of which provide that no one may be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment,
    For the purposes of this Convention, torture means any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity. It does not include pain or suffering arising only from, inherent in or incidental to lawful sanctions.
    No exceptional circumstances whatsoever, whether a state of war or a threat or war, internal political instability or any other public emergency, may be invoked as a justification of torture.
    UN Convention Against Torture

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    Re: Guantanamo closure plan ordered

    Quote Originally Posted by JoeDavies View Post
    Whether "torture" was used or not is a tangent from the current discussion. If you want to discuss it then I would suggest you start a new thread.
    If you believe in the Supernatural then you can become a millionaire!

    Questioning or criticizing another's core beliefs is inadvertently perceived as offensive and rude.

  6. #86
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    Re: Guantanamo closure plan ordered

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    Whether "torture" was used or not is a tangent from the current discussion. If you want to discuss it then I would suggest you start a new thread.
    In May 2006, the UN Committee against Torture condemned prisoners' treatment at Guantanamo Bay, noted that indefinite detention constitutes per se a violation of the UN Convention Against Torture, and called on the U.S. to shut down the Guantanamo facility
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/h...06_torture.pdf

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    Re: Guantanamo closure plan ordered

    Al Odah v. United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Al Odah v. United States is a court case filed by the Center for Constitutional Rights and co-counsels challenging the legality of the continued detention, without charge, of Guantanamo detainees. The case is in many ways a continuation of the landmark Center for Constitutional Rights case Rasul v. Bush, which was decided by the Supreme Court in 2004. That decision determined that D.C. courts are available to Guantanamo detainees as a venue for habeas corpus petitions. Since that decision, the Bush administration has passed legislation that has interfered with the ability of detainees to contest their detentions, a procedure provided for in Rasul. The current Al Odah case challenges these obstacles. Like Rasul, Al Odah is an umbrella effort, incorporating sixteen habeas corpus petitions. Consolidated with Boumediene v. Bush, it was heard by the Supreme Court on December 5, 2007, and is one of the most anticipated cases before the Court in this term.[1][2][3][4][5][5][6]

    The decision, striking down the Military Commissions Act, was handed down on 12 June 2008.
    Last edited by scourge99; 12-21-08 at 12:03 AM.
    If you believe in the Supernatural then you can become a millionaire!

    Questioning or criticizing another's core beliefs is inadvertently perceived as offensive and rude.

  8. #88
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    Re: Guantanamo closure plan ordered

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    Conquer, when you get your butt spanked, will you begin to question the drivel you have been filled with?

    PBS and Algore are not Republican supporters by any stretch of the imagination, so you "conspiracy theory" is... dead.



    I remember it clearly.

    Score: Conquer 0 - Zimmer 1

    We offered Saddam to leave.
    Conquer. He lost Gulf War 1 and did not live up to the agreement a loser signs. So, "Yes we can" go in and finish the job. That's how it works. We tried it peacefully for 12-years with 16 useless UN Resolutions. Post 911 we tried one more time. We gave him an out too. He chose war.

    Every intel agency said he had WMD. To not act would have empowered every kook in the world. Not acting post 911 had consequences outside the Iraq theater.

    Maybe difficult for you to understand having a seemingly myopic world view.

    Score: Conquer 0 - Zimmer 2

    Tell me genius, how are my statements racist?
    This I'd love to hear.
    Are you Barak Hussein Obama, posting while you have a few minutes on your hand. You sound like him. Uninformed and throwing the racist card around like a baseball during warm-ups.

    You sound like a teenager to me.
    I was like you at that age. A blind socialist.
    Don't worry, there is hope... just don't close your mind.
    Your point is getting more nonsense. Nobody asked Saddam to leave his power, on the contrary, the "excuse" given by the Bush father administration when the US troops left Iraq suddenly after destroying his army and surrounding Baghdad was that "it was not a good idea to remove Saddam from power."

    Why? According to that former administration, it was because it could destabilize the zone, Reality is that in that moment the US intelligence really believed that Saddam still had his weapons of mass destruction (chemical weapons) and after the victory over Iraq they (the US troops and the rest of troops from other countries) decided to turn back. This is to say, they didn't want to shadow their victory with the possible death of thousands of US troops if they tried to enter in Baghdad and Saddam used his chemical weapons as his desperate defense.

    In no moment Saddam was asked directly to leave his power in that war. It was assumed that after his defeat Saddam should be turned down by the Iraqis themselves, but such event never happened. On the contrary, as Saddam controlled the information media in Iraq, he declared "victory" because the "US coalition" suddenly left their country.

    In the news media around the world, the words of Saddam saying the the "western devil" was the one which has been defeated and that Iraq won the war was the main news for a few days. Don't you remember?

    So, the misinformation that you own and that is storage in your brain, is making other posters to find mistakes by lots in your messages.

    And, you might be right, when you argue that your position is not racist, because after reading this reply of yours, one can find that your messages reveal ignorance only.

  9. #89
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    Re: Guantanamo closure plan ordered

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    But they are not imprisoned for domestic crimes! They are not US citizens or LAWFUL combatants under the Geneva Conventions.

    Domestic criminals go to domestic jails and domestic courts. Criminals in combat zones go to different jails and use different courts. Its a whole different scenario and you seem to think they should be treated as equal because of some utopian and idealistic belief you possess.
    Then they simply kidnapped and imprisoned foreigners.
    Europe is illegally occupied by the US

  10. #90
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    Re: Guantanamo closure plan ordered

    Quote Originally Posted by conquer View Post
    Your point is getting more nonsense. Nobody asked Saddam to leave his power,...
    I've been challenged, and every time I have taken you folks to the wood shed for a good ass kicking.

    Here we go again. I'm not even going to bother cutting and pasting. Go..."click"... and educate yourself.

    Would Saddam Simply Leave? - TIME

    Message to Saddam:Exile is his last chance : Diplomacy ends; Bush issuing an ultimatum - International Herald Tribune

    This is like playing with children.
    When you want to debate, then at least bring some game.

    Now go take your crayons and paper and come back when you've drawn a page full of pink elephants.

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