If I go down to Afghanistan and start fighting and killing people, then I am nothing but a criminal and should be tried in Afghan courts just like people without uniform who fight against the alliance should.
Europe is illegally occupied by the US
Sickening. Are you serious? And you expect me to be polite when such nonsense is posted?I will ask a question though.; What makes the US different than Nazi Germany then if it wages war without international approval?
Lets see, the US is not on some imperial conquest, not slaughtering millions of Jews and others, shall I go on?
This fetish with international approval is offensive. It completely subjugates national sovereignty and security to the will and whim of dictators.
You're not serious are you?
So what are you saying?Ps. none of the nations you mentioned are in the security council, nor respected inside the UN.
That if the UN Security Council "approves" of war then a state of war exists and this condition is legitimate? Puhlease.
Second, it doesn't matter if they are not respected. In the GA they still cast votes, no?
BTW - on the respected inanity...Not being respected hasn't stopped the world's most vicious abusers of human rights to not only sit on the UN HR Commission, but also chair that damn committee.
Um, you are clearly ignorant wrt how the UN operates. In 1950, the UN passed the Uniting for Peace resolution which prevents the SC from stopping the GA from taking any action to restore peace and security.Their opinions doesn't matter to say it frankly and straight forward. No one ever said that just because everyone agree except Sudan then it cannot happen, thats not how the UN functions.
Yet, you want these nations voting on whether the US or any other nation can exercise it's national sovereignty?a) Yes, I do not get mixed up in individual countries justice systems, although if its too far out I will utter an opinion. Like for example stoning and such I can stomach. But it wouldn't be my business.
Right, lets stop a war so US soldiers can be taken away from the battlefield to participate in courtroom proceedings.b) It would be no problem as long as the American soldiers were under oath.
I see, so you have faith in such trials because the same protections you demand suspected terrorists are granted by the US may not be granted by the Afghan government?c) Dont quite understand the question. But I guess it would work like any normal trial in Afghanistan. I dont think they are as technical as trials in the US or Europe, dont think it would be a problem if I understood your question correct.
Well, to say the least, I disagree. They are not common criminals. What you're saying would result in unlawful combatants being granted far more preferential treatment that lawful combatants.d) If a person breaks a law in one country he should be tried in that country, if he escape the country he should be sent back by the nation they find him in to stand trial as a criminal in the country where he committed the crime, which is all normal procedure. Prisoners of war are defined in the Geneva convention, and if they arent POWs they should be treated as criminals in my opinion.
Dont' you find that repugnant?
Hardly an appropriate analogy. You're taking a rhetorical device and completely beinding it out of shape. The war on terror involves far mroe than the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. The war on terror as it is being fought in those two places are, in fact, wars.The problem here is the "war on terror", its not really a war, just an agenda. You dont suggest we arrest people in the "war on drugs" and treat them like POWs do you?
a) What the hell do you think is going on in Iraq and Afghanistan if not war?I never said that.. But "the war on terror" isnt really a war and the fact it has no possible "end scenario" makes it impossible to justify with the Geneva convention.
b) No one is attempting to justify the war on terror by citing Geneva. What Geneva is being relied on to do is provide the basis upon which combatants are evaluated to determine whether they are eligible for POW status.
Who are you talking about specifically?The people I talk of above who don't really have POW status nor are US criminals.. They are foreign criminals "kidnapped" and imprisoned in the US, we actually don't know if they are actual criminals either, they haven't stood trial.
It's not intended to justify Gitmo or the methods of detention and trial. The legislation is intended to create the form that such tribunals will be conducted pursuant to US law.This does not justify Guantanamo nor does it justify the methods or international conduct of it all.
Not analogous to the current situation.What if Germans just started arresting and trying Americans under some bizarre German law that they create for the purpose?
No analogy to the current situation.Say Germany is fed up and decide to arrest and trial all US soldiers in Germany as trespassers under a new bizarre law, that doesnt justify the act, does it, even if the law justify the action under the law.
Because your comments are offensive. They're offensive because they reveal fundamental misunderstanding of Geneva, an absurd fetish with international law, and a certain degree of anti-Americanism.Second time with your personal attacks/general attacks.. Why do you do this? Is it too difficult for you to debate in a proper way? Do you understand why people get angry and less unwilling to debate with you when you continue like this?
Not ok.A few more times of this and I will resort to the same methods and most likely end up ignoring you and just annoy you as best I can, like I did reverend_hellhound.. Ok?
If you would dispense with the popular anti-war and anti-US talking point I might grant you some degree of respect. But when you boldy declare that no war exists despite the fact that soldiers are involved in combat, I have to question your intellectual honesty and integrity. Sorry, but that's just me.
This post-nationalist illness derives from generations of living under the protection of others.
And this post-nationalism comes from a poster clearly supportive of the current Euro-elite attempts to coerce ordinary Euros into abandoning their national identities and sovereignty by submiting to this supr-national Euro organization not through populat elections but by sneaking it through via treaty, i.e., Lisbon Treaty.
Amazingly, though, while he's supportive of such undemocratic behavior, he demands the US submit herself to unelected and unaccountable democratic processes at the UN.
Certainly one of the Euro elite or, perhaps, a mere poseur.
This, of course, angers the European, as our ascension represents the closing of the book on their once-mighty empires (the French, especially, take exception to this).
But, what REALLY honks them off is that, while the US is the most powerful nation the world has ever seen (in both relative and absolute terms), it is unquestionalbly the most benign of the true world powers -- imagine the butchery, had the UK, Spain, Germany or France been able to amass and project so much power.
I guess what seperates us from them is that -they- have been able to enjoy the luxury of laziness, being protected for so long from the wolves by adults carrying guns, and as such, their perspective on the world has been warped, sufficiently so that they believe that, merely by complaining to some court or other fallacious international body, they can keep the wolves at bay by themselves.
Last edited by Goobieman; 12-22-08 at 02:30 PM.
I'd agree. It's easy to grow up and then submit meanignless pleas to meaningless international organizations when you're not footing the bill for your own security.
I'd assume I'd be good at it, too, if I had been raised in those nation's where US security is taken for granted and America is regularly damned.
not going to throw that ball back and forward.; you clearly have no etiquette and your way of debating is so annoying that I am just not going to debate this further. People like you disgust me, its despicable the way you debate and attack.. People like you are the ones who are ruining your country...
End of discussion.. *pushing virtual ignore button*
Europe is illegally occupied by the US
People have always been acting like stupid sheep though and probably always will.
Europe is illegally occupied by the US