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Ga. Judge Jails Muslim Woman Over Head Scarf

Next time you go to court. Wear a hat. When the bailiff tells you to remove it tell him no, you must first earn my respect and see what happens.

I don't wear hats, so I'm sure it wouldn't be an issue. And you are misunderstanding what I'm saying. If someone is going to be polite to me, I will be polite back. But I'm not going to walk on eggshells for someone and kiss their ass if they are rude to me. Simply asking me to remove my hat, if I were wearing one, wouldn't be rude.
 
Next time you go to court. Wear a hat. When the bailiff tells you to remove it tell him no, you must first earn my respect and see what happens.

He wouldn't be wearing a hat because of his RELIGIOUS BELIEFS. If he were then it protected by the 1st amendment in ANY and EVERY court of the land. Unless of course you're saying free exercise of religion does not apply in American courts.
 
If it was about "respect", I doubt it would apply to women.
Even within my lifetime (and I'm not very old) women have traditionally worn hats indoors at formal functions. When I was a little girl, most of the older ladies in my church wore hats to mass. It was considered perfectly proper.
Nancy Reagan wore a hat at many important government functions and presidential addresses, including on election night.
I don't believe any first lady since the 80s has routinely worn hats indoors, but prior to Reagan, all First Ladies did; Jackie O had a matching pillbox hat for just about every suit she owned. Gloves, too.
It's never been considered polite, on the other hand, for men to wear hats indoors. Although they routinely wore them outdoors until the late 1950s/ early 60s. And some very old men still do.

These things may be passe now, but it certainly could not be considered a matter of "respect" that women be forced to doff their hats inside, even in a courtroom (which is surely no more holy than church, and requires no greater propriety than one's husband's inaugural address).
This is Georgia, it's the deep south. I'm sure they're aware of the custom of ladies wearing hats. In Georgia, they probably only stopped doing it, like, week before last. :roll:

It is not a matter of "respect".
I assume it is a safety precaution.

It wouldn't surprise me. The entire respect thing just seems like a really stupid thing to nitpick about. I don't understand how respect can be measured by someone wearing a thing on their head or not. Perhaps it is a tradition in some parts, but traditions aren't always based on logic. This one sounds pretty stupid to me.
 

Thats it, Im starting my own religion, I think i'll call it bubbaslam. In my religion we must wear camoflouge baseball caps. Lets see if I can get the law changed so everone can wear a hat in court. To hell with tradition, respecting a judge or security for that mater. America must change to accomidate every freakin body. That includes me and my baseball cap.
 
I disagree only because I have seen the chaos it creates. You don't have to respect the person, but respect for the office makes sense.

I guess the reason that I don't have any respect for the office is because it is really just a title to me. Sure, it comes with certain priveleges, but that doesn't mean to me that it should earn more respect. When it comes to the police, I do respect them but it isn't because of their title. It's because they have a gun and they fall victim to human emotion, fault and imperfection just as much as I do. A title just doesn't seem concrete and real enough for it to deserve respect. I'm sure tons of people will disagree with me on this, but it's how I've always felt.
 
He wouldn't be wearing a hat because of his RELIGIOUS BELIEFS. If he were then it protected by the 1st amendment in ANY and EVERY court of the land. Unless of course you're saying free exercise of religion does not apply in American courts.

So should a person be able to enter the White House or the Capital Building in a burka without being searched because they claim to be Muslim?
 
Thats it, Im starting my own religion, I think i'll call it bubbaslam. In my religion we must wear camoflouge baseball caps. Lets see if I can get the law changed so everone can wear a hat in court. To hell with tradition, respecting a judge or security for that mater. America must change to accomidate every freakin body. That includes me and my baseball cap.

Embracing other cultures and religions comes at a cost and if it is to bend the rules for certain irrational unspoken rules of "respect" then so be it.
 
So should a person be able to enter the White House or the Capital Building in a burka without being searched because they claim to be Muslim?

bushking-758674.jpg


Right.
 
:rofl I was just kidding around! You didn't have to really do it! I don't own the darn thing. :lol:

Thats funny DiAnna, you should be designated DPAE. DP Avatar Enforcement
 
:rofl I was just kidding around! You didn't have to really do it! I don't own the darn thing. :lol:

I assumed you were joking, but I could never resist a Lady's request.
:mrgreen:
 

Whoa. If that's the same state, which has a religious exclusion for headgear, that's a whole 'nother ball of noodles.

She's got herself a fat lawsuit, since it was the judge who violated the law, not her, and she was actually incarcerated as a result.

I don't begrudge a state the ability to make their own laws and apply them to their own public buildings (unless they violate the constitution), but if this state put a religious exclusion... and we know the hajib is indeed religious apparel for a major religion, just like the sihk turben and the Jewish cap, then the judge should have known better.
 
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I think the freedom to exercise religion overrides a silly and generally unspoken rule of respect. I wasn't even aware of the no hat/head covering rule.

To me this just sounds like a guy on a power trip wanting to be a jerk. I'm sure that Muslim women in the past have been able to wear a hijab in court with no problem.
It was a Judge applying the rules to one person that he would to another. The security protocols are to protect all of the citizens in the building.
 
It was a Judge applying the rules to one person that he would to another. The security protocols are to protect all of the citizens in the building.

She could have easily been searched and then been allowed to wear it. I'm sure that many Muslim women in the past have worn hijabs in court. Like I said, this guy sounds like he was on a power trip and wanted to be an ass about it.
 
She could have easily been searched and then been allowed to wear it. I'm sure that many Muslim women in the past have worn hijabs in court. Like I said, this guy sounds like he was on a power trip and wanted to be an ass about it.

An old white southern male on a power trip? No way.
 

:rolleyes:

So should a private citizen be able to enter the White House or the Capital Building on a civilian tour in a burka without being searched because they claim to be Muslim?
 
Thats funny DiAnna, you should be designated DPAE. DP Avatar Enforcement


Indeed. :stop: Drop the mouse now, and step away from the avatar!

I think I'll create a handy macro...
 
:rolleyes:

So should a private citizen be able to enter the White House or the Capital Building on a civilian tour in a burka without being searched because they claim to be Muslim?

Well, I'd certainly say no to that, but if a state legislature specifically excludes religious headgear from the no-hat policy in their state courts, then the judge was in error in his ruling.
 
Well, I'd certainly say no to that, but if a state legislature specifically excludes religious headgear from the no-hat policy in their state courts, then the judge was in error in his ruling.

If that were the case he definitely would, but where are you getting that from?

Either way I think she was violating courtroom policy, not an actual law. I would guess that she was charged with contempt of court, or disorderly conduct, or some such tangential charge
 
My suspicion is that the policy was enacted to prevent gang bangers (and their girlfriends, and their babies, and whoever) from entering the courtroom flying their colors.
That's just a hunch.
 
If that were the case he definitely would, but where are you getting that from?

Either way I think she was violating courtroom policy, not an actual law. I would guess that she was charged with contempt of court, or disorderly conduct, or some such tangential charge

I got it from Hautey's post, showing Georgia law providing an exception for religious headgear. This incident happened in Georgia. Have I misread something?

I don't think a judge has a right to make a courtroom policy that violates a state law... does he? And a 10-day jail sentence for violating courtroom policy seems suspect to me.
 
My suspicion is that the policy was enacted to prevent gang bangers (and their girlfriends, and their babies, and whoever) from entering the courtroom flying their colors.
That's just a hunch.

Actually, it's a pretty common policy everywhere. It is just a courtesy to the court not to wear hats, scarfs, and other head gear.

You would think that Muslims would have gotten the point over the years about the hajib/turban thing in Western courts and formal assemblies. It has been a constant argument through the centuries.

I kind of like the way Vlad Tepes handled the conflict in the 14th century. When he was approached by two Turkish emissaries, he told them to remove their turbans. They told him that in their culture, they did not remove their turbans as a sign of respect. Vlad Tepes had the turbans nailed to their heads and sent them back with the message that future emissaries should be mindful of the customs of the land to which they are sent.
 
Actually, it's a pretty common policy everywhere. It is just a courtesy to the court not to wear hats, scarfs, and other head gear.


If so, it must be a fairly recent policy.
A lady would not have appeared in court without a hat before the 1960s.
Haven't you ever watched old perry mason reruns?
 
If so, it must be a fairly recent policy.
A lady would not have appeared in court without a hat before the 1960s.
Haven't you ever watched old perry mason reruns?

I can't say for sure. I do know that I would never even attempt wearing a hat in a courtroom.
 
I got it from Hautey's post, showing Georgia law providing an exception for religious headgear. This incident happened in Georgia. Have I misread something?

Right you are - I'm the one who misread. I thought that the incident that spawned this thread happened in Virginia for some reason

I don't think a judge has a right to make a courtroom policy that violates a state law... does he? And a 10-day jail sentence for violating courtroom policy seems suspect to me.

Hatuey's article indicates that the judge in that case (or the state) was never sued. SALDEF sent a letter seeking an apology, and the judge provided it. I don't think anything official came of it.

If there is state law on the matter, however, the judge can still make a rule violating it, said rule would just get tossed when addressed in part. Congress can make a law that says "niggers and jews can't vote" if they really want to. It's just that that law wouldn't survive a legal challenge. (for further examples see everything from the Patriot Act to the new FISA law)
 
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