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Thread: Ga. Judge Jails Muslim Woman Over Head Scarf

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    Re: Ga. Judge Jails Muslim Woman Over Head Scarf

    Quote Originally Posted by Kernel Sanders View Post
    Right you are - I'm the one who misread. I thought that the incident that spawned this thread happened in Virginia for some reason



    Hatuey's article indicates that the judge in that case (or the state) was never sued. SALDEF sent a letter seeking an apology, and the judge provided it. I don't think anything official came of it.

    If there is state law on the matter, however, the judge can still make a rule violating it, said rule would just get tossed when addressed in part. Congress can make a law that says "niggers and jews can't vote" if they really want to. It's just that that law wouldn't survive a legal challenge. (for further examples see everything from the Patriot Act to the new FISA law)
    I don't think this is a case of law beyond the contempt of court. When in a courtroom, you do what the judge says. If he tells you to sit down and shut up, you do it or you are in contempt. If he tells you to hand him what's in your hands for him to inspect, you do it or you are in contempt. If he tells you to remove your hat, scarf, gloves, or hajib...you do so or you are in contempt.

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    Re: Ga. Judge Jails Muslim Woman Over Head Scarf

    Kernal: This woman might not be as forgiving as the Sikh. She was actually thrown into jail, don't forget. I'll be interested in how this all plays out, legally.

    Thanks for the info, btw.

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    Re: Ga. Judge Jails Muslim Woman Over Head Scarf

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    I don't think this is a case of law beyond the contempt of court. When in a courtroom, you do what the judge says. If he tells you to sit down and shut up, you do it or you are in contempt. If he tells you to hand him what's in your hands for him to inspect, you do it or you are in contempt. If he tells you to remove your hat, scarf, gloves, or hajib...you do so or you are in contempt.
    It isn't quite that simple. A judge can't arbitrarily demand that every black person in the courtroom leave or any other discriminatory thing (at least not without consequence). If this is was a security measure (looking back up I appear to be assuming that it was), I think the courts would side with the court. Otherwise I could see the policy getting tossed (although that still isn't a certainty)

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    Kernal: This woman might not be as forgiving as the Sikh. She was actually thrown into jail, don't forget. I'll be interested in how this all plays out, legally.

    Thanks for the info, btw.
    Well the Sikh thing never went to court, so it's still possible that the rule would be upheld if it does go anywhere. And, as I said, my guess is that a security measure would be upheld in court. You can't refuse to get your shoes checked in an airport on religious grounds, and I think that a genuine security measure would trump a religious practice. Particularly one that, when you really get down to it, is the result of society's interpretation of the Qur'an, not the Qur'an itself. Islam commands women to be modest, but does not define modesty. Sometimes this takes the form of a headscarf, sometimes a burka, sometimes you're okay as long as you aren't getting gangbanged in public. It is an interesting question, though

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    Re: Ga. Judge Jails Muslim Woman Over Head Scarf

    Quote Originally Posted by Kernel Sanders View Post
    It isn't quite that simple. A judge can't arbitrarily demand that every black person in the courtroom leave or any other discriminatory thing (at least not without consequence). If this is was a security measure (looking back up I appear to be assuming that it was), I think the courts would side with the court. Otherwise I could see the policy getting tossed (although that still isn't a certainty)
    Apples and oranges. He can make any socially acceptable request he wishes. Removal of head gear in a formal gathering is well within the lines of socially acceptable in American society.

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    Re: Ga. Judge Jails Muslim Woman Over Head Scarf

    Look at where this happened... Ga.

    Not exactly a bastion of cultural understanding. It's not like this is the first time a Muslim woman with a hijab has ever entered a court room. They could have checked her at security, and then let her proceed. But not let her wear it at all? How is that a security issue? The judge probably had a thing against Muslims and took it out on her.

    He could have easily let her in but instead decided to create a stink and make it political. This has nothing to do with religious law bowing to U.S. law, and everything to do with the personal biases of one judge.

    What is true of him is not true of the whole. I call prejudice.

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    Re: Ga. Judge Jails Muslim Woman Over Head Scarf

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    Apples and oranges. He can make any socially acceptable request he wishes. Removal of head gear in a formal gathering is well within the lines of socially acceptable in American society.
    Yes, but most of those cases have exceptions for religion (I could be wrong but I've never witnessed a Jew being asked to remove a yamaka). Also, he threw the woman in jail. That makes things a bit different.

    My main point was that if there's no reason such as security checks for the rule there is a distinct possibility that the 1st will trump the rule

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    Re: Ga. Judge Jails Muslim Woman Over Head Scarf

    I am very much a religious rights guy, but on the other hand I am also a respect protocol guy, so I'm torn on who to pull for......but I will say it does seem like the judge in this case could have been more lenient, especially considering it is a religious code.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: Ga. Judge Jails Muslim Woman Over Head Scarf

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    I don't begrudge a state the ability to make their own laws and apply them to their own public buildings (unless they violate the constitution), but if this state put a religious exclusion... and we know the hajib is indeed religious apparel for a major religion, just like the sihk turben and the Jewish cap, then the judge should have known better.
    My best friend is a juvenile law enforcement agent and told me it's surprising how much some judges don't know about legal subtleties such as exceptions or technicalities.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: Ga. Judge Jails Muslim Woman Over Head Scarf

    Its seems everyone is forgetting something. When she was told to remove her head scarf she turned and began to exit the courtroom instead. This would have been fine until she uttered an expletive. That is when she was hand cuffed and taken in front of the judge.

    If I or anyone else cursed in a courtroom that is contempt. The judge had every right to send her to jail.
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