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Thread: GM puts Volt engine plant on hold to conserve cash

  1. #41
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    Re: GM puts Volt engine plant on hold to conserve cash

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    I am not even contemplating buying the volt for gloabal warming, but yes, it is a start to ending our dependence on Foreign oil.

    If you show me those saying that the Volt is the end to the dependence on foreign oil I will say they is wrong. It is is a hybrid and as such will use gas when needed.

    But for those that drive less than 40 miles a day it is the end of foreign oil for their car as a majority for their car source.

    Isn't that better than nothing? I mean seriously. It is a start in the right direction. Over the decades of doing NOTHING about it, finally we have something that is American Made and trying to make a difference.

    That is worth something to support, if not with money, than with just support of the idea IMO.
    Thing is, TNE, it's takes a lot of oil to build the cars, and a lot of oil to run them. Not just the gasoline part... but the electricity.

    From the same website:

    People tend to think of "alternatives to oil" as somehow independent from oil. In reality, the alternatives to oil are more accurately described as "derivatives of oil." It takes massive amounts of oil and other scarce resources to locate and mine the raw materials (silver, copper, platinum, uranium, etc.) necessary to build solar panels, windmills, and nuclear power plants. It takes more oil to construct these alternatives and even more oil to distribute them, maintain them, and adapt current infrastructure to run on them.

    Oil is truly "black gold":

    Most people are stunned to find this out, even after confirming the accuracy of the numbers for themselves, but it makes sense when you think about it a bit: it only takes one ($3) gallon of gasoline to propel a three ton SUV 10 miles in 10 minutes when traveling 60 mph. How long would it take you to push a three ton SUV 10 miles?

    While people tend to drastically underestimate the energy density of oil and gas, they drastically overestimate the energy density (and thus scalability) of renewables.


    Peak Oil: Life After the Oil Crash
    No men are anywhere, and Im allowed to go in, because Im the owner of the pageant and therefore Im inspecting it, Trump said... Is everyone OK? You know, theyre standing there with no clothes. Is everybody OK? And you see these incredible looking women, and so I sort of get away with things like that.

  2. #42
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    Re: GM puts Volt engine plant on hold to conserve cash

    Double post please delete somebody.
    Last edited by TheNextEra; 12-18-08 at 08:10 PM.

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    Re: GM puts Volt engine plant on hold to conserve cash

    Quote Originally Posted by Middleground View Post
    Thing is, TNE, it's takes a lot of oil to build the cars, and a lot of oil to run them. Not just the gasoline part... but the electricity.

    From the same website:

    People tend to think of "alternatives to oil" as somehow independent from oil. In reality, the alternatives to oil are more accurately described as "derivatives of oil." It takes massive amounts of oil and other scarce resources to locate and mine the raw materials (silver, copper, platinum, uranium, etc.) necessary to build solar panels, windmills, and nuclear power plants. It takes more oil to construct these alternatives and even more oil to distribute them, maintain them, and adapt current infrastructure to run on them.

    Oil is truly "black gold":

    Most people are stunned to find this out, even after confirming the accuracy of the numbers for themselves, but it makes sense when you think about it a bit: it only takes one ($3) gallon of gasoline to propel a three ton SUV 10 miles in 10 minutes when traveling 60 mph. How long would it take you to push a three ton SUV 10 miles?

    While people tend to drastically underestimate the energy density of oil and gas, they drastically overestimate the energy density (and thus scalability) of renewables.


    Peak Oil: Life After the Oil Crash
    My point is the alternative is to do nothing. Which is better? We know cars are going to be built. We know right now we use oil.

    Are you seriously telling me the best alternative to dependence on foreign oil is to do NOTHING? That is what has been done for decades.

    So my point yet again is, what is better, to do nothing or try to do something about it?

    Electric Cars and Electric Hybrids are the start. And it is a hell of a lot better than doing NOTHING and just waiting.

  4. #44
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    Re: GM puts Volt engine plant on hold to conserve cash

    There is no magic bullet. A car cannot liberate us from oil or any other such grand gesture. Plug in electrics/hybrid cars are one piece of a fundamental shift from oil and coal to renewable energy sources. It will take a long time and a lot of infrastructure will need to change, because oil is indeed a large part of the energy market. That's most of the reason that it's so much cheaper to suck oil out of the ground, ship it halfway around the world, process it into whatever form of fuel you need, ship it around some more, and still be one of the cheapest liquids you can buy. That's why it's cheaper per megawatt to do all that than to put up a wind turbine or a solar farm and just harvest free energy. If we really want to wean ourselves from oil that process has to happen at every level. Once we do, however, each piece of that chain will be cheaper than oil ever can be, being a scarce resource. Between solar, wind, and wave energy there isn't a spot on Earth that doesn't have the potential to harvest energy, if only we can get to the point where it's as easy to utilize that energy as it is to use gas now. If you combine that with advance battery technology (such as nanotech supercapacitors - look it up, really cool stuff) that will make portable energy cheap and easy as well, and mankind has the potential to undergo a completely different kind of revolution. The problem is, if you look at any one piece of that process in isolation, as is common in politics, it looks weak and unprofitable.


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    Re: GM puts Volt engine plant on hold to conserve cash

    Quote Originally Posted by Kernel Sanders View Post
    There is no magic bullet. A car cannot liberate us from oil or any other such grand gesture. Plug in electrics/hybrid cars are one piece of a fundamental shift from oil and coal to renewable energy sources. It will take a long time and a lot of infrastructure will need to change, because oil is indeed a large part of the energy market. That's most of the reason that it's so much cheaper to suck oil out of the ground, ship it halfway around the world, process it into whatever form of fuel you need, ship it around some more, and still be one of the cheapest liquids you can buy. That's why it's cheaper per megawatt to do all that than to put up a wind turbine or a solar farm and just harvest free energy. If we really want to wean ourselves from oil that process has to happen at every level. Once we do, however, each piece of that chain will be cheaper than oil ever can be, being a scarce resource. Between solar, wind, and wave energy there isn't a spot on Earth that doesn't have the potential to harvest energy, if only we can get to the point where it's as easy to utilize that energy as it is to use gas now. If you combine that with advance battery technology (such as nanotech supercapacitors - look it up, really cool stuff) that will make portable energy cheap and easy as well, and mankind has the potential to undergo a completely different kind of revolution. The problem is, if you look at any one piece of that process in isolation, as is common in politics, it looks weak and unprofitable.

    Don't disagree with what you have said, but if we do nothing where are we at? The same place we are now and the same place we were when gas prices dominated.

    I'm not saying Electric or Electric Hybrid is the silver bullet to oil , but it is most definitely a start to something else other than just taking up the ass for the entirety of our fuel.

    People should welcome new technology. Hell I remember talking with my grandfather when he talked about the past and he said the calculator wouldn't amount to anything because it was too expensive when it came out.

    Just to give you folks another thing to worry about the middle east is with communication. It is quite clear fiber optics is the future. Guess where we have the most sand to make glass fiber optics. Oh yeah the middle east. We aren't done by a long shot there.

    But if we do nothing, we recognize they hold all the cards and we must follow.

    Is that what you all want?

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    Re: GM puts Volt engine plant on hold to conserve cash

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    Don't disagree with what you have said, but if we do nothing where are we at? The same place we are now and the same place we were when gas prices dominated.

    I'm not saying Electric or Electric Hybrid is the silver bullet to oil , but it is most definitely a start to something else other than just taking up the ass for the entirety of our fuel.

    People should welcome new technology. Hell I remember talking with my grandfather when he talked about the past and he said the calculator wouldn't amount to anything because it was too expensive when it came out.

    Just to give you folks another thing to worry about the middle east is with communication. It is quite clear fiber optics is the future. Guess where we have the most sand to make glass fiber optics. Oh yeah the middle east. We aren't done by a long shot there.

    But if we do nothing, we recognize they hold all the cards and we must follow.

    Is that what you all want?
    Sorry - that was supposed to be after Middleground's post. It just took me a while to write

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    Re: GM puts Volt engine plant on hold to conserve cash

    Quote Originally Posted by Kernel Sanders View Post
    Sorry - that was supposed to be after Middleground's post. It just took me a while to write
    Aw hell sorry.....

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    Re: GM puts Volt engine plant on hold to conserve cash

    Quote Originally Posted by Kernel Sanders View Post


    Translation-- "Please environuts in office and envirowackos/man made global warming theory believers we need this bail out,see how we had to hold back on making this plant that makes engines that use clean electricity."
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: GM puts Volt engine plant on hold to conserve cash

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    I disagree. That makes perfect sense. GM was poised to be the first auto manufacturer to develop an cheap electric car for commercial sales...now it seems likely that Toyota or Honda will beat them.
    The technology to make a good general-use electric car does not exist at this time. This product is market effluvia, which begs the question of how the needed electricity will be generated.

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    Re: GM puts Volt engine plant on hold to conserve cash

    Quote Originally Posted by Oftencold View Post
    The technology to make a good general-use electric car does not exist at this time. This product is market effluvia, which begs the question of how the needed electricity will be generated.
    I am guessing you didn't see the link here:

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaki...ve-cash-4.html

    The fact is many Electric companies are prepared for it, but the logic is not everyone is going to buy one right away so the electric grid is not going to be under strain right away.

    This means upgrades and this means that nuclear power might finally be a viable and publicly accepted option in the future.

    That's not a bad thing. The alternative is to remain a slave to foreign oil as a mjority. Which is better to research?
    Last edited by TheNextEra; 12-18-08 at 09:22 PM.

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