Page 7 of 12 FirstFirst ... 56789 ... LastLast
Results 61 to 70 of 111

Thread: UK work time opt-out under threat

  1. #61
    Sage
    Ikari's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Colorado
    Last Seen
    12-08-17 @ 01:05 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    54,124

    Re: UK work time opt-out under threat

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus Zeebra View Post
    Its so exhausting that I have to spend hours on the beach every morning


    Kinda blows your little slavery rant out of the water then eh?
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  2. #62
    Human 2.0
    Maximus Zeebra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Western Europe
    Last Seen
    09-07-17 @ 10:19 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    6,568

    Re: UK work time opt-out under threat

    Quote Originally Posted by Kernel Sanders View Post
    Is there a problem with people getting forced to work long hours? Because otherwise anybody who is working 48 hours wants to be working 48 hours. If people are being forced to work 48+ hours that would be an extremely serious problem and this law is too soft, if anything. If not, I don't see how anybody sees any benefit from the government making it hard to work the number of hours they want to work.
    Yes, there is that problem, its not FORCE, but MARKET force which are driving up regular times for the majority. Take my home country Norway for example, there was no such max time regulation but many Unions. A small minority of people had to work a lot, say 60 hours because they wanted more money. Eventually these people with their added money drove up prices for just about everything forcing another small minority to work more than normal 40 hours, say 60 hours, then they drove up prices and another majority who worked 40 hours could not afford to compete with these people because they only worked 40 hours, but now had to work 60 hours because of the price increases...
    Now in my country(which have the highest GDP in the world) we have the highest prices in the world and all people that I know work like mad men to follow the rest of the society and to survive they have to work overtime, because it is no longer possible to have a decent living when "only" working 40 hours....

    Its the same principle as indebted societies and property market values vs prices..


    This is why I think the new law is damn good, because I have seen how living without such a law has ruined and enslaved my home nation.. People there don't have time for anything anymore and the social repercussions of what is going on are enormously bad. I don't like to speak to those people anymore, they are always in a hurry and have no time, thats partly a reason that I moved.. They are a majority of slaves.


    The same is more or less true for the UK, and I guess from what I hear from you guys it is at some stage taking place in the US as well.
    Last edited by Maximus Zeebra; 12-19-08 at 08:58 AM.
    Europe is illegally occupied by the US

  3. #63
    Sage
    Ikari's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Colorado
    Last Seen
    12-08-17 @ 01:05 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    54,124

    Re: UK work time opt-out under threat

    So you're saying that a bunch of people worked their asses off to get money, and with the money they earned bought expensive homes. Because people were buying expensive homes in a region the upkeep (which was probably well handled) and demand drove property prices up. And then other people wanted what those guys had, so they had to work their asses off to earn the money to do so. And now that it aggregated, you think the homes they have; which took the original people busting their balls to make money to own, should be the standard and you don't think subsequent people should bust their balls even though the original people had to bust their balls. So you want to be able to have the homes they had but not put in the time they did to earn the money to get it huh? You're law is idiotic, you could have handled this without the government.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  4. #64
    Human 2.0
    Maximus Zeebra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Western Europe
    Last Seen
    09-07-17 @ 10:19 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    6,568

    Re: UK work time opt-out under threat

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    So you're saying that a bunch of people worked their asses off to get money, and with the money they earned bought expensive homes. Because people were buying expensive homes in a region the upkeep (which was probably well handled) and demand drove property prices up. And then other people wanted what those guys had, so they had to work their asses off to earn the money to do so. And now that it aggregated, you think the homes they have; which took the original people busting their balls to make money to own, should be the standard and you don't think subsequent people should bust their balls even though the original people had to bust their balls. So you want to be able to have the homes they had but not put in the time they did to earn the money to get it huh? You're law is idiotic, you could have handled this without the government.
    Inflation is valid in all walks of life... I stopped reading your post when you assumed that I was saying something that you thought out rather than read..
    Europe is illegally occupied by the US

  5. #65
    Sage
    Ikari's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Colorado
    Last Seen
    12-08-17 @ 01:05 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    54,124

    Re: UK work time opt-out under threat

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus Zeebra View Post
    Inflation is valid in all walks of life... I stopped reading your post when you assumed that I was saying something that you thought out rather than read..
    Inflation is one thing, but what you're talking about isn't caused by inflation since that would affect everyone. Your argument was that a small group of people worked their asses off to afford stuff and that ended up driving up the price of everything. Which is false on a few fronts. One is that if it's a small group, they can't drive up the price on everything. How many homes does one own? Usually one. Some guy works his ass off to buy an expensive home, he's not going to buy another one. So he's out of the market and his influence is then gone. You can locally drive prices up by increased demand, but it's not possible for a small group of people to aggregated drive it up everywhere. Also, the demand is not then sustainable. The small group would run out of market force and without the additional market force, prices would fall. Less other people wanted what those people had and decided to work their asses off so that they could too get it. But that's no fault of the business nor the domain of government. That's consumer demand, and all markets are going to respond to it.

    So this gets aggregated over, and soon an entire region has inflated prices. But if this is a bubble, then it's not sustainable; it will pop. But your solution is not one of market control, but rather productivity and labor control. Instead of trying to either pop that bubble or otherwise restore proper market forces to real estate; you seek to empower through government restrictions and control on labor. So in essence you're trying to forbid that initial guy who wanted more and wanted to work for more the ability for him to work for more. That, or you grossly misrepresented the causes for the real estate bubble. Working wage arguments are best handled through individual unions as they can adjust to the localities easier.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  6. #66
    Human 2.0
    Maximus Zeebra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Western Europe
    Last Seen
    09-07-17 @ 10:19 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    6,568

    Re: UK work time opt-out under threat

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Inflation is one thing, but what you're talking about isn't caused by inflation since that would affect everyone. Your argument was that a small group of people worked their asses off to afford stuff and that ended up driving up the price of everything. Which is false on a few fronts. One is that if it's a small group, they can't drive up the price on everything. How many homes does one own? Usually one. Some guy works his ass off to buy an expensive home, he's not going to buy another one. So he's out of the market and his influence is then gone. You can locally drive prices up by increased demand, but it's not possible for a small group of people to aggregated drive it up everywhere. Also, the demand is not then sustainable. The small group would run out of market force and without the additional market force, prices would fall. Less other people wanted what those people had and decided to work their asses off so that they could too get it. But that's no fault of the business nor the domain of government. That's consumer demand, and all markets are going to respond to it.

    So this gets aggregated over, and soon an entire region has inflated prices. But if this is a bubble, then it's not sustainable; it will pop. But your solution is not one of market control, but rather productivity and labor control. Instead of trying to either pop that bubble or otherwise restore proper market forces to real estate; you seek to empower through government restrictions and control on labor. So in essence you're trying to forbid that initial guy who wanted more and wanted to work for more the ability for him to work for more. That, or you grossly misrepresented the causes for the real estate bubble. Working wage arguments are best handled through individual unions as they can adjust to the localities easier.
    You obviously havent been to the richest country in the world. Its not like that there.. Everyone have to work overtime every day, and preferably work weekends to be able to keep up with everyone else.; I guess we are just one step further from what you are..

    The principle is easy.. Why can the French do almost the same as you when their average week is 35 hours and yours is 45 hours? Aside form that they have months of vacation every year while you only have a few weeks that you usually do not take..

    They live their lives, often in relaxation.. They work to live, you guys live to work.
    Europe is illegally occupied by the US

  7. #67
    Sage
    Ikari's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Colorado
    Last Seen
    12-08-17 @ 01:05 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    54,124

    Re: UK work time opt-out under threat

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus Zeebra View Post
    You obviously havent been to the richest country in the world. Its not like that there.. Everyone have to work overtime every day, and preferably work weekends to be able to keep up with everyone else.; I guess we are just one step further from what you are..
    And there's the rub. People all wanted the same stuff. Some guys initially worked their assess of to get it, and then everyone wanted it; but it seems not by methods of also working their asses off to get it. I also don't see why you have to keep up with everyone else. Live as you wish, and if you want more you're gonna have to work with it. Me? I'm fine with an apartment for now so long as I can play video games and hang out with friends. And I can do all that with my "slavish" hours.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus Zeebra View Post
    The principle is easy.. Why can the French do almost the same as you when their average week is 35 hours and yours is 45 hours? Aside form that they have months of vacation every year while you only have a few weeks that you usually do not take..
    Easy, they don't accomplish in a week what we do here. They have a very socialist government and their jobs are all pretty well government ensured. It also prohibits mobility in the work place and displaces younger generations. In America, things are guaranteed. You can keep your job so long as you can do a better job than the guy next to you. So we're built for productivity and work, wherein we work for what we earn and don't take much in the form of government handout or security past safety regulation. It means you have to work hard, but also makes things very mobile. Rich can become poor, poor can become rich; but you can't maintain a status quo by sitting on your ass. You have to put in energy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus Zeebra View Post
    They live their lives, often in relaxation.. They work to live, you guys live to work.
    Not really, we're just overall not comfortable with socialism or government handouts. We like very much independence and being able to reap the benefits of our own labor. But we work hard and we play hard.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  8. #68
    Dangerous Spinmaster
    RightOfCenter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    South Dakota
    Last Seen
    04-14-12 @ 04:45 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    4,736

    Re: UK work time opt-out under threat

    Quote Originally Posted by Kernel Sanders View Post
    Is there a problem with people getting forced to work long hours? Because otherwise anybody who is working 48 hours wants to be working 48 hours. If people are being forced to work 48+ hours that would be an extremely serious problem and this law is too soft, if anything. If not, I don't see how anybody sees any benefit from the government making it hard to work the number of hours they want to work.
    As much as this sounds like a redneck, neocon, Republican cliche insult for liberals: Max really does hate freedom. He would be much happier with the EU telling him how to live every facet of his life.
    Quote Originally Posted by SWM
    I never thought infanticide could be so delicious.

  9. #69
    Sage
    Khayembii Communique's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Milwaukee, WI
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 06:30 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    7,887

    Re: UK work time opt-out under threat

    As much as this sounds like a redneck, neocon, Republican cliche insult for liberals: Max really does hate freedom. He would be much happier with the EU telling him how to live every facet of his life.
    Yep, I was right. These are the exact same criticisms that were used against the 8 hour work day.

    Pitiful.

  10. #70
    Educator
    Slainte's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Scotland
    Last Seen
    02-15-13 @ 11:09 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    1,061

    Re: UK work time opt-out under threat

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post

    Easy, they don't accomplish in a week what we do here. They have a very socialist government and their jobs are all pretty well government ensured. It also prohibits mobility in the work place and displaces younger generations. In America, things are guaranteed. You can keep your job so long as you can do a better job than the guy next to you. So we're built for productivity and work, wherein we work for what we earn and don't take much in the form of government handout or security past safety regulation. It means you have to work hard, but also makes things very mobile. Rich can become poor, poor can become rich; but you can't maintain a status quo by sitting on your ass. You have to put in energy.
    I'm pretty sure French GDP Per Capita per hour worked is higher than the US's. Americans work more hours, but the French accomplish more per hour, the reason US GDP is higher is down to quantity of work, not quality. It actually begs an interesting question as to what would happen if the French did work a similar number of hours, would France become a richer country than the US? Of course if they did GDP per hour may decline...

    Secondly, I'd love to see a study which says social mobility in the US is higher than it is in France! I can't find a source saying either online just now, but I'm almost 100% sure France has significantly higher social mobility. In fact I think it was discussed on DP a while ago, I'll look for the thread.
    We all live under the same sky, but we don't all have the same horizon

Page 7 of 12 FirstFirst ... 56789 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •