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Thread: Shoe thrower 'beaten in custody' .

  1. #31
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    Re: Shoe thrower 'beaten in custody' .

    Yes but democratic countries try to avoid it as much as possible. Also it could be really good to avoid it in high profile cases. Just think of the reaction of Marta Stewart had been beaten up in jail. This is a extremely high profile case. A lot of Iraqies dislike Bush and if the guy that throw the shoes is beaten up it will increase his popularity. Iraq also have to show that they have started respecting human rights in their prisons. A good start is keep the high profile cases from being beaten up.

    A parallel is the Swedish king that got a cake in his face. According to some old forgoten Swedish law the cake thrower could get up to seven years in prison. But the king pushed for droped charges. Because it would have diminished his popularity and increase the sympathy for the cake thrower.

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    Re: Shoe thrower 'beaten in custody' .

    Quote Originally Posted by bub View Post
    So what? It's totally unacceptable that a prisoner gets beaten in custody, especially if he hasn't killed/raped anyone.

    Furthermore, what he did was not a "real" attack, it was just symbolic, like Noel Godin who throws pie on famous people who deserve it



    If you think this guy would get beaten in custody if he was in the USA, then you should not be very proud...



    where?
    What about if the shoe hits president Bush? Was that "symbolic" for you as well? Take notice of the spped of the shoe and what the shoe is made of. Those shoes can cause even bleeding hitting a face at such speed.

    Even in US the simple fact that you "tried" to hurt someone is worthy of detention and even prosecution.
    Last edited by conquer; 12-17-08 at 04:27 PM.

  3. #33
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    Re: Shoe thrower 'beaten in custody' .

    Quote Originally Posted by conquer View Post
    What about if the shoe hits president Bush? Was that "symbolic" for you as well? Take notice of the spped of the shoe and what the shoe is made of. Those shoes can cause even bleeding hitting a face at such speed.

    Even in US the simple fact that you "tried" to hurt someone is worthy of detention and even prosecution.
    If he had wanted to hurt Bush he would have used a gun or a bomb

    It was obviously symbolic, because hitting someone with a shoe is an insult in Iraq. It's as if he had throwed a pie, in less funny.

    If you throw a shoe or any small object that can't really hurt (because it's not "hard" like a can or a bottle) on someone, I doubt you'd be prosecuted. The only difference is that the aim was Bush.

    You may think that it's not OK to throw shoes on famous people because they are "high officials", I think the contrary. Bush fully deserves to get shoes, pies, eggs and tomatoes in his face every time he gets outside the white house, because he is responsible of many things that went wrong.

    It's not just Bush, it's also the bankers who have caused the economic crisis, all the corrupt politicians...

  4. #34
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    Re: Shoe thrower 'beaten in custody' .

    So far this is just a he-said, they-said. The brother made the allegation, which as pointed out keeps changing. Iraqi security denies it. Personally, I don't know and until there's proof, or at least some tangible evidence, either way, speculation isn't particularly useful.

    He's gotta know that doing something like attempting to assault the president of a country would irritate a few people.

    Oh, and yes, I think he wanted to hurt Bush. If he could have gotten a gun or a bomb through the metal detectors and secret service security, I'm betting he would have.
    Last edited by DiAnna; 12-18-08 at 12:48 AM.

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    Re: Shoe thrower 'beaten in custody' .

    Quote Originally Posted by conquer View Post
    What about if the shoe hits president Bush? Was that "symbolic" for you as well? Take notice of the spped of the shoe and what the shoe is made of. Those shoes can cause even bleeding hitting a face at such speed.

    Even in US the simple fact that you "tried" to hurt someone is worthy of detention and even prosecution.
    My main thought on this is, as I think another poster already mentioned, that this does not inspire much confidence in the presidential security team.
    It concerns me especially because I fear our next president will be a particular target.
    Shoe-throwers, I fear, will be the least of his problems.

  6. #36
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    Re: Shoe thrower 'beaten in custody' .

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Odd, Here it shows a study that 10% of the male population in Australian prisons suffer from rape, many on a daily basis. I guess that is quite an indication of the way "Democracy" and "human rights" factor into Australia.
    Indeed it would and I'm not Australian so your sort of missed in trying to attack my country.

    Actually it doesn't, and neither does it here. Taking a single incident, espicially one that while regrettable is hardly something unheard of in ANY civilized country in this world, and trying to make a claim with it is ignorant. Furthermore, doing it without proper historical scope is equally ignorant. IF this story is true, and so far there's no proof of it at all, it is regrettable but is much better than the likely death sentence for him and his family under the previously regime. To me, the fact that didn't happen is signs of progress. If he was beaten, it is a sign that there's still progress that needs to be done (as there is everywhere, be it Iraq, the U.S., or Australia).
    Yes because there are no similar human rights problems in Iraq of course, this is the only act of violence we ever hear coming out of that country.

    I meant indicative as in symbolic of the other numerous abuses and violence that plague Iraq.
    Last edited by Wessexman; 12-18-08 at 01:11 AM.
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    Re: Shoe thrower 'beaten in custody' .

    Quote Originally Posted by Korimyr the Rat View Post
    If this is true, I think it says far more about Australia than it would about President Bush, and I am afraid that what it says about Australia isn't particularly nice.
    Or the world I could have chosen Britain or many other countries, this guy has become a hero in Iraq it seems. Bush is very unpopular even if I think he seems like an alright person.

    Note Bush doesn't mean American despite the fact some here seem to conflate him that way, in the same way as Brown or Blair were never the same as England.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

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    Re: Shoe thrower 'beaten in custody' .

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    Oh, and yes, I think he wanted to hurt Bush. If he could have gotten a gun or a bomb through the metal detectors and secret service security, I'm betting he would have.
    Not really, he had been telling his colleagues for at least 7 months that he would throw his shoe, that's what he did

  9. #39
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    Re: Shoe thrower 'beaten in custody' .

    It was obviously symbolic, because hitting someone with a shoe is an insult in Iraq. It's as if he had throwed a pie, in less funny.
    Actually it is completely different than something like that. In Middle Eastern and I believe some East Asian cultures it is the ultimate insult to show someone the bottom of your shoe or to touch it to someone. It is equated to basically walking on that person.

    As most of you know, it's not my nature to write a new post one day after I published a post because I don't want to ruin the older one unless something really big happens. Sacred shoe is not a myth or a fairy tale…the shoe I'm talking about is for Muntathar AlZaidi from AlBaghdadia channel; the brave journalist that I'm sure majority of you have heard of…but what you haven't heard is the reactions of the Iraqi street and what do people think of Muntathar and what happened.

    As a start I must make it clear what does it mean to throw someone with a shoe in the Iraqi traditions or may I say Arabic traditions in general; it's the maximum insult a man can do…it's the maximum humiliation no word can accomplish…and it happened yesterday in front of the whole world to one of the greatest criminals in the modern history when the brave Muntathar AlZaidi threw his two shoes on Bush who was standing beside AlMaliki in a press conference in Baghdad (BTW, it was an insult to AlMaliki too since he was standing besides him and in his place which is considered another insult in the Arab traditions).

    I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw it on TV…Bush is a great criminal who directly or indirectly killed and ruined the lives of thousands of people whether Iraqis or American and it was hurting me to see him walking out of the white house with a pride thinking and pretending that he have accomplished his missions, made the world a better place and spread democracy! And the shoe came right on his face to wake him up and give him the humiliation he deserves by the hands of a brave Iraqi with the brave Iraqi saying "here is the goodbye kiss"…how many Iraqi faces have been stepped on with shoes because of him, it's time for him to try his own poison…I jumped out of my chair with the widest smile ever but that smile disappeared when I saw the bastards kicking him and punching him, what really hurt me with all the Iraqis that the ones who were beating him are Iraqis screaming "Turn off the all the cameras" and the brave was screaming "you are Iraqis!!!", if they were Americans it would be OK because it's their president and it's their duty to protect him but not Iraqis…as the journalist of AlBabiliya channel said "it has been hours and we are still hearing him being beaten and screaming in the other room" is this the democracy and freedom to beat someone! I know it's not a democracy to hit a president with a shoe and he should face the law because law is tricky but does the law say he should be beaten? Didn't Bush say he rescued the Iraqis from the torture of Saddam? Didn't both of them (AlMaliki and Bush) said that Iraq is a country of law! Then does the law permit torturing and in front of them and the whole world? There is nothing easier than talking…in addition to that 4 of his colleagues from AlBaghdadia channel were arrested, beaten and undressed.

    Source
    Oh, and yes, I think he wanted to hurt Bush. If he could have gotten a gun or a bomb through the metal detectors and secret service security, I'm betting he would have.
    It would have been pretty damned easy to get a bomb through a metal detector. The entire point was that he wasn't trying to severely hurt or kill him; it was entirely a symbolic act. The man is a journalist, not a terrorist.

    What he did was incredibly admirable.

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