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Thread: 45% Suspect Obama Team Involved in Blagojevich Scandal

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    Re: 45% Suspect Obama Team Involved in Blagojevich Scandal

    Quote Originally Posted by aps View Post
    Let's not pretend that Bush wasn't trying to associate the two in this speech as to why we should invade Iraq. This paragraph is one example. Read the whole transcript. He mentions September 11th throughout his speech knowing that people will hear Iraq and September 11 and associate one with the other. To me, while he didn't say, "Saddam had a hand in September 11th," he unquestionably intimated a relationship.
    And no where in there did Bush say that Iraq or Saddam had ANYTHING to do specifically with 9/11, yet many people think he HAS said that because its been stated again and again by the left.

    Which was my entire point.

    Yes, saying things over and over again or giving impressions can make people think things. The American people is easily mislead. I stated, the things stated by the Bush administration and the media could easily lead people to think that Iraq had a hand in 9/11 because the American people by and large are easily led into thoughts. That said, I've seen nothing that PROVES that it was the INTENT of the Bush administration to make people think they had a hand specifically in 9/11. I do believe the intent was to connect AQ and Iraq, but they did a very poor job of explaining exactly how and what the frame was.

    However many on the left for years were saying that BUSH said that SADDAM/IRAQ had a hand in 9/11...something he has not said, yet many people believe he actually HAS said that.

    What makes me laugh at partisans is the fact that they condemn the Bush Administration for doing it, but somehow are blind to their own.

    Many of the farther folks on the left are as guilty of the American People thinking that the Bush Administration was trying to say that Iraq had a hand in 9/11 as the Bush Administration itself is because of the fact that instead of listening to the words and going after the fact he's tieing it to the War on Terror, they instead decided to say that "OH OH OH! He's saying that Iraq had a hand in 9/11!" and thus the American People heard them say that, and started thinking that's what's been said.

    You'er doing the same kind of thing. You presume to know his intentions. You presume to know exactly what he's doing. You refuse to look at it in any other light then your particular political agenda. You see it one way, one way only, and then use that as justification for the fact that people were saying something untrue unless its contorted in their mind to fit it. I don't doubt that its possible that was his intention. I don't also doubt its possible his intention was to connect Iraq to the greater War on Terror, as a state that did sponsor terrorism against American allies and worked with Terrorist groups in the past (be it AQ or others).

    I'm not saying the Bush Administration is not included in the guilt of the American People thinking there was a connection, I'm saying that the left and the media are also guilty of repeating a lie or an "implied truth" that also shaped what the American Public thought. The people that condemn one side are just hillariously partisan.

    I wouldn't have been that bugged if the general repeated tag line was always "Bush's Administration attempted to imply that Saddam/Iraq was involved in 9/11". But it wasn't that. It was often stating that BUSH himself actually stated the above thing as fact, and that's what seemed to have stuck.

    Similarly, all three sides are contributing to why some suspect Obama is involved. Many on the Right are saying it, which contributes. The Left is continually coming out and condemning the Right for saying it or saying "no no no, its not true", and the media is constantly and continuosuly reporting on it. The way things generally work with the american public, imho, is that the more they hear something they will start to think its possibly true.

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    Re: 45% Suspect Obama Team Involved in Blagojevich Scandal

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Did I say that?

    No, no I did not.
    I didn't say that you did or didn't. I wanted clarification. You can step down from Defcon 4 and chill.

    What I am saying is that saying something over and over again will cause a large group of the population to likely believe it, imho.
    No disagreement there.

    This can be done numerous ways. What makes me laugh is that people only want to see one side of it.
    Partisans on both sides only want to see one side of it. How is this anything new?
    Yes, pictures of Iraq/Saddam and the 9-11 attacks/Bin Laden put next to each other could very easily make people simply believe that those things are connected.
    Well, that's all I'm saying. And all I'm asking for is recognition that someone can be duplicitous without coming right out and saying a bald faced lie.

    However, there's little evidence that "Bush" himself went to things like Fox, and even CNN and MSNBC, and said "put those pictures up".
    Most media outlets were guilty of just publishing whatever statements the press secretary said that day as fact. "Bush" wouldn't have needed to try very hard.

    That doesn't change the fact that the administration did try to tie the two together
    Oh, well, okay then. What the hell are we arguing about?

    But yes, I do think that the way the media covered the early part of the Iraq War helped to make much of the American people think that Iraq had a hand in 9/11.
    Agreed.
    Similarly, the way many on the left and the media continued to say that BUSH said that Saddam/Iraq had a hand in 9/11 ALSO helped make a large amount of the population believe that Bush himself said such...something that is utterly False.
    I know that.

    What's hillarious is that partisans like yourself
    Say what??

    love to trumpet out one example and then act completely oblivious to the other. Why? Because it doesn't fit your little agenda and script.
    What are you even talking about?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    This Blagojevich thing doesn't surprise me either. You have those on the Right saying it, and you have those on the Left denying it. This means that either way, the American public is hearing the accusation. The American public has always been skeptical, and rightly so, of its leadership. However thanks to the lefts constant drumbeat of "government is corrupt, government is corrupt, government is corrupt" of the past, even with it being Obama I think its natural that people generally think the worst. Its much the same as in the late 90's/early 00's with sex scandals due to republicans and the Clinton scandal.

    Ultimately, I think its a rather useless poll. It doesn't tell us Obama or his staff was involved. It doesn't tell us they weren't. It doesn't really tell us anything save for what the media's presentation of it likely has caused people to think. The funniest thing about it though is seeing some people either hailing this as gospel, and yet questioning the low Bush approval ratings...while at the same time some of the people that would quote Bush's approval ratings as gospel, questioning this.

    The sad fact is, imho, that the majority of the population is extremely intelligently dishonest and/or lazy, and choose to listen to things that help their viewpoint/agenda and condemn things that don't and completely and utterly ignore the illogical reasoning as to why they make such decisions.
    I don't know what it is I said that set you off, but I don't disagree with any of this.

  3. #43
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    Re: 45% Suspect Obama Team Involved in Blagojevich Scandal

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    I agree with you., However, there is a question as to whether there was "knowledge" of a crime.
    I guess. I won't condemn him for anything unless I see evidence of wrongdoing, which I haven't. Even if I do, I can't say that failure to report is a big deal to me anyway. Blaggy and anybody who played ball with him should go down. Refusing to play his games is exculpatory enough for me

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    Re: 45% Suspect Obama Team Involved in Blagojevich Scandal

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    What happened to openess and stating "we have nothing to do with this" instead we get "We will tell you what our own internal investigation found out already in two weeks"....


    This is suspect to me.
    I don't understand the problem with this. I'm hearing "We'll let you know when we know anything ourselves." Obviously "we had nothing to do with this" would have been the better political option. In retrospect that's clear. But I don't see their answer as evasive.

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    Re: 45% Suspect Obama Team Involved in Blagojevich Scandal

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Actually, I would not agree. For anyone with half a brain or better, there needs to be a LOT more to creating a link than putting pictures next to one another.
    But I'm not talking about rational people. I'm talking about the people who are intellectually lazy enough to draw correlation from proximity, and the people who exploit this weakness.

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    Re: 45% Suspect Obama Team Involved in Blagojevich Scandal

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    I don't know what it is I said that set you off, but I don't disagree with any of this.
    My apologizes, perhaps I misread your posts (or looking back, may've got it mixed up with another person without an avatar -.- I've not realize how reliant I am on avatars when reading through a thread quickly to know whose talking). It seemed to be you were stating disagreement over the thought that those repeatedly stating that Bush said they were specifically involved in 9/11 was the same kind of "repeat it and they will believe it for gospel" type of scenario.




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    Re: 45% Suspect Obama Team Involved in Blagojevich Scandal

    Quote Originally Posted by Kernel Sanders View Post
    I guess. I won't condemn him for anything unless I see evidence of wrongdoing, which I haven't. Even if I do, I can't say that failure to report is a big deal to me anyway. Blaggy and anybody who played ball with him should go down. Refusing to play his games is exculpatory enough for me


    See this admin though was not supposed to be "politics as usual" and to me that means if they see this corruption, it is thier duty and thier promise to report it.,
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: 45% Suspect Obama Team Involved in Blagojevich Scandal

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    I don't understand the problem with this. I'm hearing "We'll let you know when we know anything ourselves." Obviously "we had nothing to do with this" would have been the better political option. In retrospect that's clear. But I don't see their answer as evasive.


    The issue is they already have thier answer but won't release it for another week now. To me that is suspect.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: 45% Suspect Obama Team Involved in Blagojevich Scandal

    I think this really is partially chalked up to 24/7 news coverage.

    Republicans can constantly come out saying "He was involved" or "We need to know if he's involved", making people wonder if he's involved.

    Democrats and Obama are constantly going "no no no, he is/I am not involved at all", making people wonder if they're covering up.

    Media people are reporting and speculating on it non-stop.

    And thus we're getting what used to be a few weeks worth of news on this in a few days, making people want instant gratification. They don't want to wait 2 weeks for all the news to be found out because they'll be sick of all the news within 3 or 4 days. They want to know NOW, and if they can't know now they want to form an opinion of certainty NOW.

    God I hate the 24/7 news cycle.

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    Re: 45% Suspect Obama Team Involved in Blagojevich Scandal

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    But I'm not talking about rational people. I'm talking about the people who are intellectually lazy enough to draw correlation from proximity, and the people who exploit this weakness...
    You mean the people that left continually tries to convince that 'Bush connected Iraq to 9/11'?

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