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Thread: McCain scolds GOP for whacking Obama

  1. #71
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    Re: McCain scolds GOP for whacking Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    How are they not socialism? They are a communal good/service owned and provided by the government which provides a benefit for all paid for by public taxation. How is that not Socialism?
    It's not socialism because you cannot just fabricate a new definition of socialism to suit your arguments.

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    Re: McCain scolds GOP for whacking Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by JMak View Post
    It's not socialism because you cannot just fabricate a new definition of socialism to suit your arguments.
    Too bad that communal ownership and delivery of services and goods to all citizens equally paid for by taxation is socialism.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: McCain scolds GOP for whacking Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Too bad that communal ownership and delivery of services and goods to all citizens equally paid for by taxation is socialism.
    Now, I'm not arguing against that.

    The problem is that how you were defining socialism wasn't the definition of socialism.

    Seriously, where do you get this notion that the provision of national defense and public safety reflect socialism. By such a standard, then all nations which provide national defense and public safety or any other government-subsidized service is socialist.

    Do you realy believe that is what socialism represents? Do you believe that the provision of defense and public safety exceeds the thresshold of governance to be considered socialist?


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    Re: McCain scolds GOP for whacking Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by JMak View Post
    Now, I'm not arguing against that.

    The problem is that how you were defining socialism wasn't the definition of socialism.
    Aside from being wrong, what else do you have to say?

    Seriously, where do you get this notion that the provision of national defense and public safety reflect socialism. By such a standard, then all nations which provide national defense and public safety or any other government-subsidized service is socialist.
    Good job on finally realizing that socialism is a necessary part of all functioning countries. Furthermore, good job on finally learning that socialism ranges in a variety of aspects and degrees. Socialism is far more then people often tend to think it is. Providing a communal governess owned good/service that is dictated in use by government for the citizens paid for by taxation of those citizens is Socialism. How is that not the definition again?

    Do you realy believe that is what socialism represents? Do you believe that the provision of defense and public safety exceeds the thresshold of governance to be considered socialist?
    Read the definition of socialism and get back to me.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: McCain scolds GOP for whacking Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Aside from being wrong, what else do you have to say?
    I'm not sure what I was wrong about.

    Good job on finally realizing that socialism is a necessary part of all functioning countries.
    Good job at completely neutering what it is that socialism is.

    Furthermore, good job on finally learning that socialism ranges in a variety of aspects and degrees. Socialism is far more then people often tend to think it is. Providing a communal governess owned good/service that is dictated in use by government for the citizens paid for by taxation of those citizens is Socialism. How is that not the definition again?
    Um, I learned this long ago. I also learned long ago that people often twist whatever is they have to make their point more convenient.

    Read the definition of socialism and get back to me.
    I have. How does national defense and public safety as provided here in the US make the US a socialist nation?

    I'll be waiting.

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    Re: McCain scolds GOP for whacking Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    I've long said that a socially moderate but fiscally conservative party in the image of Goldwater would totally annihilate the Democrats. Few seem to listen though.
    I am in complete agreement, though while I am not FAR right on social issues, I do adhere to traditional religious values, but those same religious values tell me that people who are less fortunate SHOULD receive assistance.
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    Re: McCain scolds GOP for whacking Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by JMak View Post
    I'm not sure what I was wrong about.
    Everything? Oh wait, that's not news.

    Good job at completely neutering what it is that socialism is.
    You mean your twisted definition of what socialism is. Not my problem.

    Um, I learned this long ago.
    Clearly. You just now redefine it so that you can call communally owned goods that provide services and goods for taxpayers equally isn't socialism when you like what that good/service is.

    I also learned long ago that people often twist whatever is they have to make their point more convenient.
    See above. You are saying that communal owned services and goods provided for the citizens equally paid for by citizen taxation isn't Socialism.

    I have. How does national defense and public safety as provided here in the US make the US a socialist nation?
    Every country is socialist in some regard. I never argued that national defense and public safety made us on those grounds Socialist. I said they were socialist services.

    I love how you argue that communally owned goods that are provided equally for all taxpayers funded by taxation is not Socialism. Only because you like those services and goods!
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: McCain scolds GOP for whacking Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Everything? Oh wait, that's not news.
    The first time you...oh, forget it.

    You mean your twisted definition of what socialism is. Not my problem.
    No, I mean your inability to even properly discuss socialism.

    Clearly. You just now redefine it so that you can call communally owned goods that provide services and goods for taxpayers equally isn't socialism when you like what that good/service is.
    Ha. It ain't socialism except if you completely neuter the meaning of socialism to include anything and everything provided by government.

    See above. You are saying that communal owned services and goods provided for the citizens equally paid for by citizen taxation isn't Socialism.
    It ain't.

    Every country is socialist in some regard. I never argued that national defense and public safety made us on those grounds Socialist. I said they were socialist services.
    They are not socialist services. This is what I meant when I said above that you cannot even properly discuss socialism. Socialism ain't a government providing national defense or public safety. These are legitimate government functions. Your logic would effectively neuter socialism and it's importance as an organizing and governmental principle.

    I love how you argue that communally owned goods that are provided equally for all taxpayers funded by taxation is not Socialism. Only because you like those services and goods!
    Yeah, that's my argument.

    Give me your PayPal account, I'll flip you a quarter so you can buy a clue.

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    Re: McCain scolds GOP for whacking Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by JMak View Post
    No, I mean your inability to even properly discuss socialism.
    Incorrect. You don't like my inability to discuss socialism how you want to discuss it rather then what it actually is.

    Ha. It ain't socialism except if you completely neuter the meaning of socialism to include anything and everything provided by government.
    How much does a ticket on the fail train cost JMak? When government provides a good equally to all citizens is that the same as providing a good specifically to some groups and not to others? That would remove your claim right there. I never included that. You did. Which makes you dishonest in your assertion about my position (guess, what your favorite phrase is coming soon!).

    It ain't.
    "Socialism refers to a broad set of economic theories of social organization advocating state or collective ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods"

    Huh. Let's see. The highway system, police, firefighters and military are collectively owned and administrated by the government and the means of production and usage is also administrated by the government.

    They are not socialist services.
    So communally owned services that are administrated by the government to provide equally for all citizens isn't a socialist service?

    Who's the one who can't define it? You. That's who.

    Socialism ain't a government providing national defense or public safety. These are legitimate government functions.
    GOOD JOB. You're finally realizing that legitimate government functions include providing some aspect of socialism.

    Yeah, that's my argument.
    Pretty much. Military, police and firefighters are all services dictated and owned by the government (and therefore the people in this country) and provide services equally for all its citizens.

    Let's look at that key part of the definition again:

    "advocating state or collective ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods"

    1) State ownership. Check
    2) Administration by state of production and distribution. Check
    3) Equal providing of services. Check.

    Care to get off the fail train Jmak?
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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