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Thread: Shoes thrown at Bush on Iraq trip

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    Re: Shoes thrown at Bush on Iraq trip

    Quote Originally Posted by Chanda View Post
    I know, you said Bush has made "bad decisions," but basically he's a good person at heart.
    Well, thank you for obviously showing me you're a worthless debater that's not even worth my time. You make an erroneous claim, I call you on it, and then you peddle out this bull**** instead of even touching my point. Thanks for showing intellectual honesty in debate isn't anything you value or desire to have. Waste your finger strokes if you want, you've shown your not worth reading.

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    Re: Shoes thrown at Bush on Iraq trip

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Well, thank you for obviously showing me you're a worthless debater that's not even worth my time. You make an erroneous claim, I call you on it, and then you peddle out this bull**** instead of even touching my point. Thanks for showing intellectual honesty in debate isn't anything you value or desire to have. Waste your finger strokes if you want, you've shown your not worth reading.
    Erroneous in your opinion, but then you think Bush is a good honest man with a good heart who just made some bad decisions. I think I proved that's not the case.
    "The Pearl Harbor of the 21st century took place today." President George W. Bush, in his daily diary, September 11, 2001

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    Re: Shoes thrown at Bush on Iraq trip

    Opinion: a personal belief or judgment that is not founded on proof or certainty

    Fact: a concept whose truth can be proved

    Erroneous: to contain error, be mistaken, wrong, incorrect

    You:

    "Bush based his Iraq war on the premise that someone might try to harm the US sometime in the future. You approve of that"

    Me:

    "Hey Chanda, go find a quote of me saying that I think it was a good thing to invade Iraq or that I approve that we went over there in the first place."

    You:

    -A bunch of bull**** that doesn't show in any way shape or form that I supported the invasion of Iraq or think its a good idea-

    Sorry, its not my opinion its erroneous. Its fact, because you can't back it up with anything to prove it true.

    Kind of the same way you're erroneously saying that I believe him to be an honest man, something again, is not based in any fact save for your own delusion to try and paint me in a light different then what is actually there.

    See, words have meanings. Annoying thing that, I know, you must hate it.

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    Re: Shoes thrown at Bush on Iraq trip

    We should have just gotten rid of Saddam, left, and let the chips fall where they may in Iraq. Those savage Arabs don't deserve anything from the civilized world.

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    Re: Shoes thrown at Bush on Iraq trip

    A flip side here on this; Isn't this allowed BECAUSE of Bush? Under the previous regime his entire family would have been dropped from a helicopter.
    Is this not true? The journalist has forgotten what other nations have also lost and sacrificed for his right to insult our president. He believes that freedom is not worth dying for. Perhaps when we pull out or reduce our numbers he will be hung by his feet in the streets when forces of tyranny overrun the present government. He is a coward by every definition.
    It's nothing more than X's and O's.

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    Re: Shoes thrown at Bush on Iraq trip

    Quote Originally Posted by rhinefire View Post
    A flip side here on this; Isn't this allowed BECAUSE of Bush? Under the previous regime his entire family would have been dropped from a helicopter.
    Is this not true? The journalist has forgotten what other nations have also lost and sacrificed for his right to insult our president. He believes that freedom is not worth dying for. Perhaps when we pull out or reduce our numbers he will be hung by his feet in the streets when forces of tyranny overrun the present government. He is a coward by every definition.



    Exactly.


    My guess is this man would never have thrown a shoe at Saddam. even if he raped and killed his family.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: Shoes thrown at Bush on Iraq trip

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    Exactly.


    My guess is this man would never have thrown a shoe at Saddam. even if he raped and killed his family.
    If he had thrown a shoe at a visiting Hugo Chavez, Saddam would have beheaded him on the spot.

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    Re: Shoes thrown at Bush on Iraq trip

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Me:

    "Hey Chanda, go find a quote of me saying that I think it was a good thing to invade Iraq or that I approve that we went over there in the first place."
    I searched your posts regarding the Iraq War. I found several posts in which you defended the administration on the charge of lying us to war. You defended the rationale of the war on terror as one attacking nations harboring terrorists. You claimed to disagree 100% with Ron Paul (who opposes the war) on the Iraq War issue. You applauded and complimented GySgt's lengthy defense of the war here:

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post


    Absolutely beautiful, well thought out post.
    I searched for a long while, and it's possible I could have missed something, but I found no posts that were significantly critical of Bush's Iraq war policies. But most importantly, you defended all of Bush's questionable actions (which would include his Iraq war policies) as "bad decisions" based on good-hearted intentions. You are wrong about that, and the purpose of my post was to show you why. What you call "bull****" was from a thoroughly documented time line of pre-war planning, showing that Bush expressed a desire to attack Iraq as early as 1999 for the purpose of promoting himself as a great leader. No good-hearted, well intentioned president would be so callous as to regard our military as so much cannon fodder for the purpose of his own self-promotion.

    Kind of the same way you're erroneously saying that I believe him to be an honest man, something again, is not based in any fact save for your own delusion to try and paint me in a light different then what is actually there...See, words have meanings. Annoying thing that, I know, you must hate it.
    What? You said, "I do think he's honestly a good man, with a good heart, that's made a number of bad decisions along the way." "Good man, good heart" would imply basic honesty to most people.

    I don't need your concocted scenarios to understand your point. I understand that you think the reporter's actions were illegal, and that's all that matters. You don't understand, or least won't acknowledge, that an action can be illegal, but still morally justified. That reporter didn't see Bush as a "visiting head of state." He saw him as an occupier who has devastated his country and killed, injured and displaced millions of Iraqis. Most people around the world would agree with him.
    "The Pearl Harbor of the 21st century took place today." President George W. Bush, in his daily diary, September 11, 2001

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    Re: Shoes thrown at Bush on Iraq trip

    Quote Originally Posted by Chanda View Post
    I searched your posts regarding the Iraq War. I found several posts in which you defended the administration on the charge of lying us to war. You defended the rationale of the war on terror as one attacking nations harboring terrorists. You claimed to disagree 100% with Ron Paul (who opposes the war) on the Iraq War issue. You applauded and complimented GySgt's lengthy defense of the war here:
    Lets see here...

    I do defend the administration on the "CHARGES" of lying us to war. I do not believe them completely innocent, as I have said, however I also do not believe it to the extent that many on the left twist and contort it to be. That said, that does not mean I agreed with going into the war. A close friend could have dozens of legitimate reasons to quit his job and go work for his jackass father, and I may agree those reasons are legitimate, but that doesn't mean I also automatically agree he should quit and go work for his jackass father.

    Apparently, unlike you, I debate based on my values, principles, and beliefs not based soundly on what side of the isle I sit on. I try to look at things honestly and state my opinion on them, based on the actual facts not based on "Its a conservative!/Its a liberal!". I do not think the Bush Administration is as guilty on this charge as many on the left state; this does not mean I agree with going into Iraq.

    Similarly, the defending of the rational on WHY we went into Iraq. As I said above, I do not disagree with the rational entirely. I can understand the rational and how it was used. This still does not mean I agreed or wished to go into Iraq.

    In regards to Ron Paul, if you had read my posts concerning him you'd find my disagreement with him 100% about Iraq was not about going into it, but immediete pull out. I disagreed strongly with him due to my views in regards to the Iraq War now that we're there. It has been my belief for some time that an immediete withdrawl would be much more damaging for much longer amount of times to the U.S. than staying until there is a concievable finish to this conflict. This again does not mean I supported entering into the War in Iraq. One may disagree strongly with the direction ones company may decide to go with their manufacturing, however once those higher up than you have made the decision to go with that change it is ignorant to not try and simply deny the action happened and try to make the most success in that situation if a complete u-turn would be more damaging.

    I can't comment on the GySgt post since you didn't actually link to it. However, once again, someone can have a well thought out, appealing, greatly done post on something without completely agreeing with each thing. I have had a number of liberals compliment me on posts I've made that they don't agree with; I had libertarians compliment me on my PATRIOT Act thesis despite disagreeing. I've complimented others that I don't necessarily agree with but are well done.

    So what it comes down to is no...you couldn't find anything of me actually supporting us entering into the War in Iraq. Thanks.

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    Re: Shoes thrown at Bush on Iraq trip

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Lets see here...

    I do defend the administration on the "CHARGES" of lying us to war. I do not believe them completely innocent, as I have said, however I also do not believe it to the extent that many on the left twist and contort it to be.
    It is not only the left, but the majority of Americans, including many on the right believe Bush & Co lied. Paul Craig Roberts is very conservative, having served in the Reagan administration and Wall Street Journal staff. He wrote:

    The Bush regime lied and fabricated "evidence" that was used to deceive Congress, the American people, and the United Nations. The vice president of the United States and the national security adviser created public images of mushroom clouds going up over American cities unless Iraq was invaded and Saddam Hussein's terrible weapons of mass destruction were destroyed.

    At the time that these absurd claims were being made, experts knew that they were false. Today everyone knows that the claims were lies.


    The Crime of the Century - by Paul Craig Roberts

    The obvious lies were blatant enough, there was no need to twist or contort them.

    I do not think the Bush Administration is as guilty on this charge as many on the left state; this does not mean I agree with going into Iraq.
    Well, we disagree about the extent of guilt. Maybe you don't agree with going into Iraq, but you continue to defend those who were responsible, and that is what I was pointing out to you.

    I can't comment on the GySgt post since you didn't actually link to it.
    Close enough. Click on the clicky thing, it's post #123

    So what it comes down to is no...you couldn't find anything of me actually supporting us entering into the War in Iraq. Thanks.
    Defending the perpetrators is supporting the war, a truly indefensible war. Referring to the war as simply a "bad decision" shows denial of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Denial of facts is partisanship.

    Again, you think the illegality of the reporter's actions is the only thing that is important to consider. There can be moral justification for illegal acts, and in this case it applies.
    Last edited by Chanda; 12-17-08 at 01:25 PM.
    "The Pearl Harbor of the 21st century took place today." President George W. Bush, in his daily diary, September 11, 2001

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