Page 7 of 12 FirstFirst ... 56789 ... LastLast
Results 61 to 70 of 114

Thread: US car bail-out talks 'collapse'

  1. #61
    Tavern Bartender
    Pussy Grabbin' Beaver
    Middleground's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Canada's Capital
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:47 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    22,459
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: US car bail-out talks 'collapse'

    Quote Originally Posted by WI Crippler View Post
    I believe it costs Toyota around $35 per hour, per employee(this is hourly wages,benefits and other costs. For GM(or one of the big three, I can't remember) it is around $81.
    According to this, it's not true:

    More important, and contrary to what you may have heard, the wages aren't that much bigger than what Honda, Toyota, and other foreign manufacturers pay employees in their U.S. factories. While we can't be sure precisely how much those workers make, because the companies don't make the information public, the best estimates suggests the corresponding 2007 figure for these "transplants"--as the foreign-owned factories are known--was somewhere between $20 and $26 per hour, and most likely around $24 or $25. That would put average worker's annual salary at $52,000 a year.

    So the "wage gap," per se, has been a lot smaller than you've heard. And this is no accident. If the transplants paid their employees far less than what the Big Three pay their unionized workers, the United Auto Workers would have a much better shot of organizing the transplants' factories. Those factories remain non-unionized and management very much wants to keep it that way.

    But then what's the source of that $70 hourly figure? It didn't come out of thin air. Analysts came up with it by including the cost of all employer-provided benefits--namely, health insurance and pensions--and then dividing by the number of workers. The result, they found, was that benefits for Big Three cost about $42 per hour, per employee. Add that to the wages--again, $28 per hour--and you get the $70 figure. Voila.




    Assembly Line
    “No men are anywhere, and I’m allowed to go in, because I’m the owner of the pageant and therefore I’m inspecting it,” Trump said... “‘Is everyone OK’? You know, they’re standing there with no clothes. ‘Is everybody OK?’ And you see these incredible looking women, and so I sort of get away with things like that.”

  2. #62
    Sage
    Khayembii Communique's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Milwaukee, WI
    Last Seen
    12-15-17 @ 07:18 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    7,897

    Re: US car bail-out talks 'collapse'

    So you agree that market conditions set the fair value of a particular position.
    No, I believe that the only "fair value" is the full value of their labour.

    Market conditions don't set "fair" values, they set economical values.

  3. #63
    Advisor Richard Nixon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Last Seen
    10-26-16 @ 07:22 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    473

    Re: US car bail-out talks 'collapse'

    Quote Originally Posted by Middleground View Post
    According to this, it's not true:

    More important, and contrary to what you may have heard, the wages aren't that much bigger than what Honda, Toyota, and other foreign manufacturers pay employees in their U.S. factories. While we can't be sure precisely how much those workers make, because the companies don't make the information public, the best estimates suggests the corresponding 2007 figure for these "transplants"--as the foreign-owned factories are known--was somewhere between $20 and $26 per hour, and most likely around $24 or $25. That would put average worker's annual salary at $52,000 a year.

    So the "wage gap," per se, has been a lot smaller than you've heard. And this is no accident. If the transplants paid their employees far less than what the Big Three pay their unionized workers, the United Auto Workers would have a much better shot of organizing the transplants' factories. Those factories remain non-unionized and management very much wants to keep it that way.

    But then what's the source of that $70 hourly figure? It didn't come out of thin air. Analysts came up with it by including the cost of all employer-provided benefits--namely, health insurance and pensions--and then dividing by the number of workers. The result, they found, was that benefits for Big Three cost about $42 per hour, per employee. Add that to the wages--again, $28 per hour--and you get the $70 figure. Voila.




    Assembly Line
    So they're guessing?
    www.thecaffeinemachine.com - looking for main-page political writers, so if anyone is interested send a PM (apologies if that violates any rules)

  4. #64
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Last Seen
    03-22-15 @ 02:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    17,343

    Re: US car bail-out talks 'collapse'

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    No, I believe that the only "fair value" is the full value of their labour.

    Market conditions don't set "fair" values, they set economical values.
    Define "full value of their labor" and explain how this is not set by the labor market.

  5. #65
    Sage

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Last Seen
    04-23-17 @ 05:59 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    15,429
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: US car bail-out talks 'collapse'

    Quote Originally Posted by Middleground View Post
    According to this, it's not true:

    More important, and contrary to what you may have heard, the wages aren't that much bigger than what Honda, Toyota, and other foreign manufacturers pay employees in their U.S. factories. While we can't be sure precisely how much those workers make, because the companies don't make the information public, the best estimates suggests the corresponding 2007 figure for these "transplants"--as the foreign-owned factories are known--was somewhere between $20 and $26 per hour, and most likely around $24 or $25. That would put average worker's annual salary at $52,000 a year.

    So the "wage gap," per se, has been a lot smaller than you've heard. And this is no accident. If the transplants paid their employees far less than what the Big Three pay their unionized workers, the United Auto Workers would have a much better shot of organizing the transplants' factories. Those factories remain non-unionized and management very much wants to keep it that way.

    But then what's the source of that $70 hourly figure? It didn't come out of thin air. Analysts came up with it by including the cost of all employer-provided benefits--namely, health insurance and pensions--and then dividing by the number of workers. The result, they found, was that benefits for Big Three cost about $42 per hour, per employee. Add that to the wages--again, $28 per hour--and you get the $70 figure. Voila.




    Assembly Line
    I don't get what your arguing here. I said the cost per employee, not the hourly wage. And if thats the cost per employee, then it still counts as putting them at a disadvantage marketwise.
    "Loyalty only matters when there's a hundred reasons not to be-" Gen. Mattis

  6. #66
    Sage
    Khayembii Communique's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Milwaukee, WI
    Last Seen
    12-15-17 @ 07:18 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    7,897

    Re: US car bail-out talks 'collapse'

    Define "full value of their labor" and explain how this is not set by the labor market.
    "Surplus-value is the social product which is over and above what is required for the producers to live.

    The measure of value is labour time, so surplus value is the accumulated product of the unpaid labour time of the producers. In bourgeois society, surplus value is acquired by the capitalist in the form of profit: the capitalist owns the means of production as Private Property, so the workers have no choice but to sell their labour-power to the capitalists in order to live. The capitalist then owns not only the means of production, and the workers’ labour-power which he has bought to use in production, but the product as well. After paying wages, the capitalist then becomes the owner of the surplus value, over and above the value of the workers’ labour-power.

    In all societies in which there is a division of labour, there is a social surplus; what is different about bourgeois society is that surplus value takes the form of capital, and surplus value is in fact the essence of production in capitalism.– Only productive work, i.e., work which creates surplus value, is supported. All “unproductive labour” is eliminated.

    The capitalists may increase the amount of surplus value extracted from the working class by two means: (1) by absolute surplus value – extending the working day as long as possible, and (2) by relative surplus value – by cutting wages.

    Attempts by individual capitalists to increase their profits by introducing machinery or speeding-up production by technique fail as soon as their competitors copy the new technique and restore their market share. The end effect of these improvements in production may be to increase the productivity of labour, but unless the rate of surplus value is increased proportionately, the rate of profit will actually fall.

    Having been accumulated as capital, surplus value must then be distributed to landlords, bankers and other parasites, and expended via taxes on the various expenses of maintaining the social fabic."
    MIA Encyclopedia

  7. #67
    Professor
    Shewter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Puget Sound
    Last Seen
    02-21-13 @ 09:14 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    1,995

    Re: US car bail-out talks 'collapse'

    It's been said before.

    I'd rather have less per hour than unemployment.

    Shouldnt the union be negotiating? Not flat out refusing? Thought that's what they were there for.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Don't apologize to me over that silly ****. I could care less if I can see the dust or not.
    Now apologize for apologizing!

  8. #68
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Last Seen
    03-22-15 @ 02:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    17,343

    Re: US car bail-out talks 'collapse'

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    "Surplus-value is the social product which is over and above what is required for the producers to live.

    MIA Encyclopedia
    This doesnt really answer my question.

  9. #69
    Sage
    Khayembii Communique's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Milwaukee, WI
    Last Seen
    12-15-17 @ 07:18 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    7,897

    Re: US car bail-out talks 'collapse'

    This doesnt really answer my question.
    No, but that is essentially the krux of this discussion. I'm not going to teach you Marxist economics because 1. I don't want to waste my time and; 2. You don't really care.

  10. #70
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Last Seen
    03-22-15 @ 02:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    17,343

    Re: US car bail-out talks 'collapse'

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    No, but that is essentially the krux of this discussion. I'm not going to teach you Marxist economics because 1. I don't want to waste my time and; 2. You don't really care.
    I see.
    Well, since you wont explain it, I won't cosnider it with any degree of seriousness.

Page 7 of 12 FirstFirst ... 56789 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •