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Thread: US car bail-out talks 'collapse'

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    Re: US car bail-out talks 'collapse'

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    In the process of the sustainability of human society through production, their job is utterly unnecessary, as it has been historically shown many times that workers are capable (in fact, more so, as generally when factories are appropriated by its workers their productivity increases) of self-management.
    This is just laughable. You mean to say that workers won't vote to give themselves more benefits and pay with fewer working hours right? Like, ya know, the UAW did? The same pay and benefits that are going to drive the company into bankruptcy?
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    Re: US car bail-out talks 'collapse'

    Quote Originally Posted by RightOfCenter View Post
    If I were on the company's board of directors I'd say probably not, but I'm not so their bosses are the ones who decide.
    Why would a board of directors award executives--time-and-time again--for doing such a lousy job at managing their companies? Year after year after year. That is beyond my level of comprehension.
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    Re: US car bail-out talks 'collapse'

    Quote Originally Posted by RightOfCenter View Post
    This is just laughable. You mean to say that workers won't vote to give themselves more benefits and pay with fewer working hours right? Like, ya know, the UAW did? The same pay and benefits that are going to drive the company into bankruptcy?
    Fact is that it takes education and experience to manage a corportation like GM, and a lot of it. The idea that the collective can self-manage might work OK for a farming community, but a global corporation is another issue entirely.

  4. #54
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    Re: US car bail-out talks 'collapse'

    This is just laughable. You mean to say that workers won't vote to give themselves more benefits and pay with fewer working hours right? Like, ya know, the UAW did?
    No, I'm saying that they would.

    The same pay and benefits that are going to drive the company into bankruptcy?
    Union agitation isn't driving the company to bankruptcy. Poor economic planning, a massive bureaucracy of management, and paying ridiculous amounts of money to their upper- and mid-level management is.

    Although you are right in the sense that a company isn't able to compete in a capitalist economy while paying workers the full value of their labour, which is why capitalism should be done away with.
    Last edited by Khayembii Communique; 12-12-08 at 01:13 PM.

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    Re: US car bail-out talks 'collapse'

    Quote Originally Posted by Middleground View Post
    If that is truly your opinion, then I don't understand why you have issue with the unions.
    In your own words:
    They are (the union workers) if someone pays them that much (GM, Chrysler, Ford).
    The point your missing here is that the car companies -aren't- willing to poay the unions that much because they are able to pay other people less.

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    Re: US car bail-out talks 'collapse'

    The point your missing here is that the car companies -aren't- willing to poay the unions that much because they are able to pay other people less.
    No, I don't think I missed that.

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    Re: US car bail-out talks 'collapse'

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    No, I don't think I missed that.
    Yes you have, in that you seem to still think that the unions (that is, the workers themseleves) get to dictate the 'fair value' of their labor.

    That's done by competition in the labor market.

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    Re: US car bail-out talks 'collapse'

    Yes you have, in that you seem to still think that the unions (that is, the workers themseleves) get to dictate the 'fair value' of their labor.
    No, I never said that Unions dictate a "fair value".

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    Re: US car bail-out talks 'collapse'

    Quote Originally Posted by Middleground View Post
    How much per hour does Toyota pay their American employees comapred to Ford and/or GM?
    I believe it costs Toyota around $35 per hour, per employee(this is hourly wages,benefits and other costs. For GM(or one of the big three, I can't remember) it is around $81.
    "Loyalty only matters when there's a hundred reasons not to be-" Gen. Mattis

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    Re: US car bail-out talks 'collapse'

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    No, I never said that Unions dictate a "fair value".
    So you agree that market conditions set the fair value of a particular position.

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