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Thread: US car bail-out talks 'collapse'

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    Re: US car bail-out talks 'collapse'

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    The part your missing here is that the 'full value of their labor' is measured by the market, not the people getting paid.

    If someone will do the same work for $5/hr, then the "full value" of the work is NOT the $35/hr the unions/workers expect.

    And, if the union holds out for that $35/hr, they have no one to blame but themselves when the jobs go to the people working for $5/hr
    They do that in China.

    Hey, I bet if they started paying US workers $5 an hour, you will be able to find replacements who'll do it for $2. Particularly, the poorer areas. Cool how that works.

    Oh, but don't forget the executive multi-million bonuses for devising such a shrewd business plan!
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    Re: US car bail-out talks 'collapse'

    You know what's the silly thing? Even if they did get this money, given their current losses - and I can't see the car industry improving to a good standard until at least Q2 of 2010 - they'd chomp through this money in months. They'd essentially be prolonging the inevitable.
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    Re: US car bail-out talks 'collapse'

    Quote Originally Posted by Middleground View Post
    They do that in China.

    Hey, I bet if they started paying US workers $5 an hour, you will be able to find replacements who'll do it for $2. Particularly, the poorer areas. Cool how that works.

    Oh, but don't forget the executive multi-million bonuses for devising such a shrewd business plan!
    Fantasy:
    Unions can artificially inflate the price of labor regardless of the global labor market
    Reality:
    The global labor market decides the 'fair value' of labor.

    You dont have to like it, but you DO need to accept the fact that competition lowers price and increases quality and prodictivity, and this fact applies to labor as much as anything/everything else.

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    Re: US car bail-out talks 'collapse'

    They're paying more than the full value of their labor. That's the main reason they're failing.
    If that was the case then they wouldn't be paying their CEO's and upper-level executives millions of dollars.

    The part your missing here is that the 'full value of their labor' is measured by the market, not the people getting paid.

    If someone will do the same work for $5/hr, then the "full value" of the work is NOT the $35/hr the unions/workers expect.

    And, if the union holds out for that $35/hr, they have no one to blame but themselves when the jobs go to the people working for $5/hr
    If you want to get into a discussion as to the origin of value, then feel free to open a thread about it in the Economics forum. Of course, we could always just take your position to its logical conclusion and state that women and children working 12 hours a day for $20 they are being paid fairly because it was determined by the market.

    You dont have to like it, but you DO need to accept the fact that competition lowers price and increases quality and prodictivity, and this fact applies to labor as much as anything/everything else.
    Workers compete because they are put in a position where they must do so to survive. Capitalists compete because they must do so to increase their revenue to increase profit and therefore increase the amount of capital they can reinvest to perpetuate the process.
    Last edited by Khayembii Communique; 12-12-08 at 12:56 PM.

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    Re: US car bail-out talks 'collapse'

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    If that was the case then they wouldn't be paying their CEO's and upper-level executives millions of dollars.
    Are you trying to assert that the work of someone on an assembly line is as important as the work of a CEO?
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    Re: US car bail-out talks 'collapse'

    Are you trying to assert that the work of someone on an assembly line is as important as the work of a CEO?
    No, I am asserting that the work of someone on an assembly line is fundamentally necessary whereas the work of a CEO is fundamentally unnecessary.

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    Re: US car bail-out talks 'collapse'

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    If that was the case then they wouldn't be paying their CEO's and upper-level executives millions of dollars.
    You can whne about the CEOs and capitalists all you want - it doesnt in any way address the validity of what I said -- in a global market, unions do not dictate 'fair value', the global market itself does.

    Workers compete because they are put in a position where they must do so to survive.
    Welcome to reality.

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    Re: US car bail-out talks 'collapse'

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Fantasy:
    Unions can artificially inflate the price of labor regardless of the global labor market
    Reality:
    The global labor market decides the 'fair value' of labor.

    You dont have to like it, but you DO need to accept the fact that competition lowers price and increases quality and prodictivity, and this fact applies to labor as much as anything/everything else.
    How much per hour does Toyota pay their American employees comapred to Ford and/or GM?
    No men are anywhere, and Im allowed to go in, because Im the owner of the pageant and therefore Im inspecting it, Trump said... Is everyone OK? You know, theyre standing there with no clothes. Is everybody OK? And you see these incredible looking women, and so I sort of get away with things like that.

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    Re: US car bail-out talks 'collapse'

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    No, I am asserting that the work of someone on an assembly line is fundamentally necessary whereas the work of a CEO is fundamentally unnecessary.
    Which is completely false. They aren't getting paid beaucoup bucks for no reason.
    Quote Originally Posted by SWM
    I never thought infanticide could be so delicious.

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    Re: US car bail-out talks 'collapse'

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    The part your missing here is that the 'full value of their labor' is measured by the market, not the people getting paid.

    If someone will do the same work for $5/hr, then the "full value" of the work is NOT the $35/hr the unions/workers expect.

    And, if the union holds out for that $35/hr, they have no one to blame but themselves when the jobs go to the people working for $5/hr
    ....I read this and wondered if your opinion is consistent when it comes to the work illegals do.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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