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Thread: US car bail-out talks 'collapse'

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    Re: US car bail-out talks 'collapse'

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    I disagree with you there. Some of GM's cars are quite competitive, but they are crap. I for one would be willing to pay a little extra for American made if it wasn't so lousy.

    It is the quality of the product and word of mouth that is hurting the company the worst. Bad decisions and bad directions.

    Yes, I agree the unions do get some of the blame, but definitely not the majority of it.

    The problem is that the union leaders and the corporate leaders are not the ones to ever pay the price for their bad decisions and that is wrong.


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    Re: US car bail-out talks 'collapse'

    I know what it took for me to earn $26 per hour back when I was still working a few years ago. Many years of education, training, and experience!!
    And yet an assembly line worker can go in right out of high school and earn more than people who spend years in education and training.
    That isn't market supply and demand working, just union demands...and management weakness...
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    Re: US car bail-out talks 'collapse'

    There are many reasons for high wages. The unions are one. Skyrocketing health insurance is another.

    I don't think that the unions are the sole cause though. Why do they have to approve of a Congressional bailout? Bail out the automakers and let the union strike. I'll bet they'll find someone to fill their shoes. I'd rather see the union busted than the automakers.

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    Re: US car bail-out talks 'collapse'

    Quote Originally Posted by RightOfCenter View Post
    The unions get the blame for hurting the companies' competiveness.

    There's plenty of blame to pass around, but I certainly wouldn't put the unions at the top of the list. Nary a bitch I've hear about the executives and CEOs of the NA big 3 who collected millions upon millions of dollars of salary and bonuses for doing the absolute worse job imaginable. If the workers were making them that poor, how do you explain this bonus trough?
    Last edited by Middleground; 12-12-08 at 10:23 AM.
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    Re: US car bail-out talks 'collapse'

    Quote Originally Posted by Middleground View Post
    There's plenty of blame to pass around, but I certainly wouldn't put the unions at the top of the list. Nary a bitch I've hear about the executives and CEOs of the NA big 3 who collected millions upon millions of dollars of salary and bonuses for doing the absolute worse job imaginable. If the workers were making them that poor, how do you explain this bonus trough?
    I can agree that the Big 3 are horribly managed. Hopefully Chapter 11 will allow them to deal with their management troubles as well as their union troubles.
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    Re: US car bail-out talks 'collapse'

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    There's no reason why the workers should have to pay for the errors caused by irresponsible capitalists. If the capitalists can't handle running the show then give them the boot.
    Can't. They're in Japan.

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    Re: US car bail-out talks 'collapse'

    The error was paying them so much that the company was uncompetitive. If they want to keep their jobs they'll take a pay cut.
    Yeah, and then they should move to East Asia and take another one. Maybe they should sacrifice all of their benefits as well. Oh, and get rid of the 8 hour work day, that's hurting production.

    If the capitalists can't handle paying the workers the full value of their labour then perhaps they shouldn't be in control.

    I'd rather see the union busted than the automakers.

    The blue collar guy loses again.


    There's plenty of blame to pass around, but I certainly wouldn't put the unions at the top of the list. Nary a bitch I've hear about the executives and CEOs of the NA big 3 who collected millions upon millions of dollars of salary and bonuses for doing the absolute worse job imaginable. If the workers were making them that poor, how do you explain this bonus trough?
    But, it's the union's fault!
    Last edited by Khayembii Communique; 12-12-08 at 12:32 PM.

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    Re: US car bail-out talks 'collapse'

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Funny how the unions get the blame here, when in fact it was the Republicans that killed the deal...
    ... because the unions didnt agree to concessions.

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    Re: US car bail-out talks 'collapse'

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    Yeah, and then they should move to East Asia and take another one. Maybe they should sacrifice all of their benefits as well. Oh, and get rid of the 8 hour work day, that's hurting production.
    Strawman much? Where did I suggest any of this? Competing companies have their factories located in America and hire American workers to make their cars.

    If the capitalists can't handle paying the workers the full value of their labour then perhaps they shouldn't be in control.
    They're paying more than the full value of their labor. That's the main reason they're failing.
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    Re: US car bail-out talks 'collapse'

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    If the capitalists can't handle paying the workers the full value of their labour then perhaps they shouldn't be in control.
    The part your missing here is that the 'full value of their labor' is measured by the market, not the people getting paid.

    If someone will do the same work for $5/hr, then the "full value" of the work is NOT the $35/hr the unions/workers expect.

    And, if the union holds out for that $35/hr, they have no one to blame but themselves when the jobs go to the people working for $5/hr

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