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Thread: Gays movement without support

  1. #71
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    Re: Gays movement without support

    Quote Originally Posted by Invayne View Post
    I'm not so sure the immigrants you are talking about want to assimilate into their society.
    Well my point is, its not fair to compare Europe's immigration problems to ours. We as a nation welcome immigrants while Europe still has a pretty shaky history towards outsiders. The whole issue of letting Turkey join the EU would be somewhat of a modern day example.
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    Re: Gays movement without support

    Quote Originally Posted by dclxvinoise View Post
    Yes, low pay. Considering the importance of their jobs they should be getting a lot more than they do.
    I don't get it. That type of reasoning wuld have the assembly line guy outearning the engineers because, well, the car company couldn't make money without the assembly line guy. In other words, it's a recipe for ever-increasing pay simply for increasing pay.

    Obviously the pay scale differs from place to place, but when you compare the wages that they get compared to college professors it's downright absurd. I'm not saying they should get paid the same as college professors, but the differences in pay there are just astounding to me.
    This is like the fair share argument about taxes. It should be a fair share, but you refuse to identify what is fair. In this case, you recognize they shouldn't be paid the same but you won't identify what the appropriate variance would be.

    The complacency came from a lot of places. A lot of people complain about the 60's, but at least the youth then had some motivation to go out and get stuff done. I think a lot of that was not only due to the Vietnam war but how good and revolutionary the music was back then. The music that is popular now is just dreadful. We are stuck in a soulless vacuum right now culturally. And I don't buy for a single second that it's a result of the sexual revolution. Conservative values do not solve everything.
    Notwithstanding the bogus hit on conservative values, you're discounting the effects of the sexual revolution which shifted importance from family to individual gratification. In a nutshell.

    As for a soulless cultural vacuum, I agree. But notice where the attacks on culture are coming from...feminists, multiculturalists, racialists, etc.

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    Re: Gays movement without support

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    It will fall a little bit because as we become more modernized and place more emphasis on jobs and career, birth rate will naturally decrease. We've done that even with tax "incentives".
    I know.

    As for illegal immigration, I'm not arguing that point. I think illegal immegration needs some serious cracking down on. We need to control our boarders a bit better. But we can do wonders with legal immigration.
    Agreed.

    I wasn't talking to that. But as to the idea that we don't want to control immigration I think to some level that is true. And that's not so much facilitated through the People as much as it is facilitated through the politicians and the government. If they don't fix the problem, they get to leave it as a talking point. Yell about what the other side is or isn't doing, meanwhile making no real effort to solve the problem.
    Good point. But I cited it as a way to illustrate the lack of national will to control legal immigration. I think I'm on point with that.

    I think the practical problems with illegal immigration and assimilation is definitely something that would need to be reproached. Assimilation is the goal, it's great to have immigration and it's good for a nation to have it. But you can't lose your national identity because of it. There is a proper way to do it and it would necessitate an overall regulation and prosecuting of illegal immigration while encouraging overall legal immigration.
    Agreed.

    Some of that is cultural. In France they don't take so kindly to Muslims. Those people are put in the poorest sector and they are given huge roadblocks to proper assimilation and participation in the economy and improving their lots. You can't really do that and expect things to come out rosey. But that's the way France's socialist structure works and because of that a certain sector of their population is purposefully kept poor and without access to other parts of the economy and society. I'm not so sure we would have the same problems here as we take our freedom of religion quite seriously (as well we should). I think that if you set the structure up right and allow for proper legal immigration with abilities to actually assimilate; then you can easily obtain those goals.
    Fair point re: France, and I agree.

    Drawing from immigrants is not a bad thing. You need it, it helps prevent stagnation. Stagnation is slow death. I agree that there are problems with the way we currently address issues such as illegal immigration and assimilation; those would have to be addressed. But that's all part of the proper solution to the problem.
    I agree if we're allowing in immigrants that enhance our culture, our creativity, etc. In other words, I agree if we get to select who comes here. However, to date, all I see is opposition and resistance from the Left to be so selective.

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    Re: Gays movement without support

    Quote Originally Posted by JMak View Post
    I love the low pay argument...I have a bro-in-law that after finishing a Master's program in curriculum development in what is essentially a correspondence program here in Detroit, he'll be earning nearly 70K. And he's a gym/health teacher. We're not even talking reading, writing, math teacher, but a gym teacher.

    I have nother pal from college that's essentially doing the same thing...but getting a PhD in administration while attending class maybe four times a semester for three hours per session. He's a high school civis teacher. Upon receiving the degree...bam - 76K with three more steps in that pay range.

    Sorry, the low pay bit goes nowhere. Just as low government funding for education goes nowhere when we realize that highest-spending school districts like DC fail to grad 50% of its students.
    Yeah, I don't think the pay is too low.

    The schools need to stop being intimidated by idiot parents. "If you don't like how we discipline your child then teach him yourself!"

    If they're not being taught at home then make the school hours longer. We've been blaming lack of parental involvement for decades and it's time to realize it will never happen.

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    Re: Gays movement without support

    Quote Originally Posted by sazerac View Post
    Yeah, I don't think the pay is too low.

    The schools need to stop being intimidated by idiot parents. "If you don't like how we discipline your child then teach him yourself!"
    Well, that blame partly lies with the courts and with...I don't know what to blame it on...but the litigous society we have become. Maybe the courts deserve this blame, too, for not permitting such cases to remain in court and be resolved in court.

    If they're not being taught at home then make the school hours longer. We've been blaming lack of parental involvement for decades and it's time to realize it will never happen.
    It won't happen because as a culture we have abaonded traditional values that have the family at the center of our lives. Now it's about promiscuity, 'cuz, you know, if you get pregnant, just abort it, right?

  6. #76
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    Re: Gays movement without support

    Quote Originally Posted by sazerac View Post
    Yeah, I don't think the pay is too low.

    The schools need to stop being intimidated by idiot parents. "If you don't like how we discipline your child then teach him yourself!"

    If they're not being taught at home then make the school hours longer. We've been blaming lack of parental involvement for decades and it's time to realize it will never happen.
    I know how to punish poor parents...make their useless kids live at home with them....should work for MOST parents.
    If we make welfare, food stamps, unemployment, and minimum wage dependent on having a high school diploma, then kids will finish school. The only other choice for them will be to live with mommy and daddy til they die and leave the house to them. Got a younger brother that did just that, only worked 2 years in his whole life in the military. But to his credit, he never married or had kids and somehow lives on a small military disability check. The state will take his house when he dies as he hasn't paid taxes in years.
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    Re: Gays movement without support

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    I know how to punish poor parents...make their useless kids live at home with them....should work for MOST parents.
    If we make welfare, food stamps, unemployment, and minimum wage dependent on having a high school diploma, then kids will finish school. The only other choice for them will be to live with mommy and daddy til they die and leave the house to them. Got a younger brother that did just that, only worked 2 years in his whole life in the military. But to his credit, he never married or had kids and somehow lives on a small military disability check. The state will take his house when he dies as he hasn't paid taxes in years.
    It's such a sin in my city the way we have been allowing the kids to just fail and let the prisons figure it out. The only chance they ever had was private school. You can tell a private school kid from a public school kid like you can tell the difference between night and day. We turn out more black pharmacists than any other city in the world.

    Hurricane Katrina was such a blessing in a lot of ways. We are now a model city for urban schools. We do everything accept what we used to do.

    Your brother should learn bookkeeping or something that he can do with a disability and earn some extra money. If he's able to. Just a suggestion. He did serve in the military and is entitled to compensation.

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    Re: Gays movement without support

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkWizard12 View Post
    Because its education that only the government approves, not what the parents or citizenry thinks should be approved. If the government wants kids to sing "heil Obama", they can.
    That wasn't the way it was where I went to school. The parents were involved with the curriculum. That's the whole point of schools being local entities and not federal entities. Rural people want their kids taught one way and city people want them taught another way.

    I remember once my mom got mad that the elementary school was showing us some African documentary film that showed boobies. That was the end of boobies in 6th grade.

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    Re: Gays movement without support

    Quote Originally Posted by sazerac View Post
    It's such a sin in my city the way we have been allowing the kids to just fail and let the prisons figure it out. The only chance they ever had was private school. You can tell a private school kid from a public school kid like you can tell the difference between night and day. We turn out more black pharmacists than any other city in the world.

    Hurricane Katrina was such a blessing in a lot of ways. We are now a model city for urban schools. We do everything accept what we used to do.

    Your brother should learn bookkeeping or something that he can do with a disability and earn some extra money. If he's able to. Just a suggestion. He did serve in the military and is entitled to compensation.
    My brother is 59, has emphysema, lives in the sticks, and doesn't WANT to work. He is not really disabled to the point that he cannot work. His disability is based on poor hearing, which was bad when he went into the navy and it got worse, but he hears better than me in our old age. My hearing loss was gradual, his occurred over a short time and never got worse. He has been offered welding jobs, a skill he learned in the navy, but wouldn't move to where the work is. Our sister even offered to house him until he saved enough to get into his own apartment. He turned it down....
    SOME people you can't help...
    The school system may have failed him, though. He was clearly in need of extra help in some areas, and my parents never seemed to be concerned about any of us when it came to education.
    Our school counselors only met with future college types, and the few who were causing trouble. The rest of us got nothing from them...
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    Re: Gays movement without support

    Quote Originally Posted by JMak View Post
    I love the low pay argument...I have a bro-in-law that after finishing a Master's program in curriculum development in what is essentially a correspondence program here in Detroit, he'll be earning nearly 70K. And he's a gym/health teacher. We're not even talking reading, writing, math teacher, but a gym teacher.

    I have nother pal from college that's essentially doing the same thing...but getting a PhD in administration while attending class maybe four times a semester for three hours per session. He's a high school civis teacher. Upon receiving the degree...bam - 76K with three more steps in that pay range.

    Sorry, the low pay bit goes nowhere. Just as low government funding for education goes nowhere when we realize that highest-spending school districts like DC fail to grad 50% of its students.
    depends on where you are....you couldn't pay me enough to teach in Detroit or DC....
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