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Thread: Gays movement without support

  1. #61
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    Re: Gays movement without support

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    It figures that sooner or later someone would blame the teachers. I have experience there, and can say that SOME teachers suck. BUT, for the most part, it is the lack of parental involvement.
    No teacher is able to undo in the classroom what the parents screwed up at home.
    The biggest problem is with dropouts. We should not allow that to happen. They can test out, but not drop out....
    Now back to our regularly scheduled program, Gays movement without support.
    I'm not really placing the blame on the teachers as much as the low pay that they get.

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    Re: Gays movement without support

    Quote Originally Posted by dclxvinoise View Post
    I think that has more to do with the lack of care given by teachers due to their low pay
    Low pay? I recall a Detroit News survey of professional occupations to compare teacher pay with pay of other professional occupations and controlling for actual working time - conclusion: teacher are smack dab in the middle.

    coupled with the fact that the youth are generally pretty complacent and lazy because they have so much to distract them; ie. tv, movies, videogames, internet, etc.
    And where did that complacency come from?

    I'd say from a culture that now values entertainment and leisure more than raising a family. That flows directly from the sexual revolution and the mass entry of women into the workplace. Women are no longer at home raising children if they have them in the first place. Hence, with mothers and fathers gone, kids are raised by totally anonymous people. And what do these children do early on? Nothing that is structured. Nothing that is associating development with activity.

  3. #63
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    Re: Gays movement without support

    Quote Originally Posted by Invayne View Post
    You wouldn't believe the crap my neighbor's kids told me....
    That still doesn't mean that it's as widespread as you assert.

  4. #64
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    Re: Gays movement without support

    Quote Originally Posted by JMak View Post
    Only if we assmiliate them. And efforts to assimilate are being severely diluted. We need only look to this past year's Muslim riots in France to see how "immigration is good for society" is working out. You cannot seriously argue that assimilation programs here in the US are being strenghtened.

    You do realize that Europe as a whole alienates their immigrants right? At the very least here in the US we (as a country) help immigrants assimilate into US society. Immigrants here can become full US citizens, unlike those in Europe who will be always be viewed by society and the government as an outsider. In addition the job market among the young is terrible in France, thats why those riots were happening.
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    Re: Gays movement without support

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    BUT, for the most part, it is the lack of parental involvement.
    Bam!

    This is most acute in minority hoods where fathers are rarely around, mothers must work to survive, and as a consequence, kids are rudderless. No values, morals, norms being passed along, no emphasis on education, etc.

  6. #66
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    Re: Gays movement without support

    Quote Originally Posted by dclxvinoise View Post
    I'm not really placing the blame on the teachers as much as the low pay that they get.
    starting pay needs to increase, but increments need to be less. my wife retired very well after 28 years of teaching, and her pay at the end of her career was very good. but starting pay certainly is a disincentive to enter the field of education....
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  7. #67
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    Re: Gays movement without support

    Quote Originally Posted by JMak View Post
    Low pay? I recall a Detroit News survey of professional occupations to compare teacher pay with pay of other professional occupations and controlling for actual working time - conclusion: teacher are smack dab in the middle.
    Yes, low pay. Considering the importance of their jobs they should be getting a lot more than they do. Obviously the pay scale differs from place to place, but when you compare the wages that they get compared to college professors it's downright absurd. I'm not saying they should get paid the same as college professors, but the differences in pay there are just astounding to me.

    And where did that complacency come from?

    I'd say from a culture that now values entertainment and leisure more than raising a family. That flows directly from the sexual revolution and the mass entry of women into the workplace. Women are no longer at home raising children if they have them in the first place. Hence, with mothers and fathers gone, kids are raised by totally anonymous people. And what do these children do early on? Nothing that is structured. Nothing that is associating development with activity.
    The complacency came from a lot of places. A lot of people complain about the 60's, but at least the youth then had some motivation to go out and get stuff done. I think a lot of that was not only due to the Vietnam war but how good and revolutionary the music was back then. The music that is popular now is just dreadful. We are stuck in a soulless vacuum right now culturally. And I don't buy for a single second that it's a result of the sexual revolution. Conservative values do not solve everything.

  8. #68
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    Re: Gays movement without support

    Quote Originally Posted by JMak View Post
    Our birth rate is what, 2.3. Replacement rate is 2.1%. And it's been falling in the US for decades now.

    Also, legal immigration may be slightly above. The problem is that illegal immigration is about to amnestied which will blow out of the water our immigration rate.
    It will fall a little bit because as we become more modernized and place more emphasis on jobs and career, birth rate will naturally decrease. We've done that even with tax "incentives".

    As for illegal immigration, I'm not arguing that point. I think illegal immegration needs some serious cracking down on. We need to control our boarders a bit better. But we can do wonders with legal immigration.

    Quote Originally Posted by JMak View Post
    I would say that legalizing 12-20 million illegals constitutes open immigration. Any time limits on legal immigration are discussed the multiculti's go up in arms calling the US racist and discriminatory. Believing that the US has the will to control immigration is a fool's belief.
    I wasn't talking to that. But as to the idea that we don't want to control immigration I think to some level that is true. And that's not so much facilitated through the People as much as it is facilitated through the politicians and the government. If they don't fix the problem, they get to leave it as a talking point. Yell about what the other side is or isn't doing, meanwhile making no real effort to solve the problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by JMak View Post
    That works if assimilation was actuall a priority. As we see the federal government, via judicial fiat, constantly expanding the number of recognized minority groups, providing government documents in multiple languages, etc., there's no incentivize or really need to assmiliate. Hell, in addition to breathing, reproduction, walking being defined as "major life functions" by the ADA effective 1/1/09, I don't think it will be soon before we see that the inability to speak English is classified as a covered disability requiring employers and schools to accomodate.
    I think the practical problems with illegal immigration and assimilation is definitely something that would need to be reproached. Assimilation is the goal, it's great to have immigration and it's good for a nation to have it. But you can't lose your national identity because of it. There is a proper way to do it and it would necessitate an overall regulation and prosecuting of illegal immigration while encouraging overall legal immigration.

    Quote Originally Posted by JMak View Post
    Only if we assmiliate them. And efforts to assimilate are being severely diluted. We need only look to this past year's Muslim riots in France to see how "immigration is good for society" is working out. You cannot seriously argue that assimilation programs here in the US are being strenghtened.
    Some of that is cultural. In France they don't take so kindly to Muslims. Those people are put in the poorest sector and they are given huge roadblocks to proper assimilation and participation in the economy and improving their lots. You can't really do that and expect things to come out rosey. But that's the way France's socialist structure works and because of that a certain sector of their population is purposefully kept poor and without access to other parts of the economy and society. I'm not so sure we would have the same problems here as we take our freedom of religion quite seriously (as well we should). I think that if you set the structure up right and allow for proper legal immigration with abilities to actually assimilate; then you can easily obtain those goals.

    Quote Originally Posted by JMak View Post
    The Netherlands is blasting full-ahead on such an endeavor. Give it some time, of course, but I don't see the Netherlands birth rate bouncing back and, more importantly, "supplemental" immigration is going to fundamentally alter that small nation's cultural foundation and probably not for the better.
    Drawing from immigrants is not a bad thing. You need it, it helps prevent stagnation. Stagnation is slow death. I agree that there are problems with the way we currently address issues such as illegal immigration and assimilation; those would have to be addressed. But that's all part of the proper solution to the problem.
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  9. #69
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    Re: Gays movement without support

    Quote Originally Posted by chevydriver1123 View Post
    You do realize that Europe as a whole alienates their immigrants right? At the very least here in the US we (as a country) help immigrants assimilate into US society. Immigrants here can become full US citizens, unlike those in Europe who will be always be viewed by society and the government as an outsider. In addition the job market among the young is terrible in France, thats why those riots were happening.
    I'm not so sure the immigrants you are talking about want to assimilate into their society.

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    Re: Gays movement without support

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    starting pay needs to increase, but increments need to be less. my wife retired very well after 28 years of teaching, and her pay at the end of her career was very good. but starting pay certainly is a disincentive to enter the field of education....
    I love the low pay argument...I have a bro-in-law that after finishing a Master's program in curriculum development in what is essentially a correspondence program here in Detroit, he'll be earning nearly 70K. And he's a gym/health teacher. We're not even talking reading, writing, math teacher, but a gym teacher.

    I have nother pal from college that's essentially doing the same thing...but getting a PhD in administration while attending class maybe four times a semester for three hours per session. He's a high school civis teacher. Upon receiving the degree...bam - 76K with three more steps in that pay range.

    Sorry, the low pay bit goes nowhere. Just as low government funding for education goes nowhere when we realize that highest-spending school districts like DC fail to grad 50% of its students.

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