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Ill. Governor taken into custody, Obama's seat part of inquery...

Family Guy said:
:rofl You ask for me to "come back when you're ready to engage in an intellectually honest debate" when you make a blanket generalization about all Chicago politicians? Are you serious? There is nothing intellectual about falsely accusing Obama without any intellectual evidence of any kind. You prefer to pronounce Obama guilty and you do so claiming your opinion is fact and beyond debate!

With all due respect this post you wrote is anything but intellectual and it is not a debating point either because your mind is made up based on conspiracy theory bull****.

Therefore I ask you to reconsider your rash statement and come back and debate me on what specifically Obama did that was corrupt in Illinois. Proof please, not bull****. If you can't prove that he did something then you have lost the debate.
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Chicago is corrupt. You can not trust Chicago politicians. They are good at hiding what they do as the whole of the system from the politicians to the cops to the judges are corrupt. I've seen that system, I know what they are about. To come up through the Chicago political system means shady dealings. I don't care if there is an R or a D or whatever next to your name. They all take bribes, the political machine there is not dead. It's very much run like organized crime from top to bottom. That is an absolute. Trust a Chicago politician at your own risk. Obama is dirty, even his little land deal which while technically legal horribly abused the spirit of the law. That's how it is done there, they write the rules, they enforce the rules, they judge the rules, they make sure there are enough loopholes for themselves to get away with whatever it is they feel like getting away with. Absolute.
 
DiAnna said:
And yet Obama comes from Chicago politics, and we are told that he is pure as the driven snow. Since he'll soon have the highest office in the land, we'd better all hope that he is, or things will go from bad to worse real fast.
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Expect Chicago in the White House. There will be plenty of pay backs to those whom have helped; plenty of nice cushy jobs given to people completely unqualified for the position. I wouldn't be surprised to see some of Daley's relatives in there.
 
jallman said:
Stevens, I will give you. But Palin? It's not even close to the same thing. Try again.
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Actually if you do the math it's very close. That and it was my way of highlighting the guilt by association tactic of some around here. Like since this governor is from Illinois and Obama is a senator from Illinois there must be some sort of connection between the two. Just as there is this senator from Alaska and Palin is a governor from Alaska so...well...you get the idea.

It was meant tongue in cheek (ergo the :spin:smilie) but some others missed that part...conveniently.
 
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rsixing said:
Actually if you do the math it's very close. That and it was my way of highlighting the guilt by association tactic of some around here. Like since this governor is from Illinois and Obama is a senator from Illinois there must be some sort of connection between the two. Just as there is this senator from Alaska and Palin is a governor from Alaska so...well...you get the idea.

It was meant tongue in cheek (ergo the :spin:smilie) but some others missed that part...conveniently.
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Well, there is the distinction that Palin was partially responsible for the investigations into Stevens.
 
MrVicchio said:
The real question ladies, is who was the Gov. talking to about being an ambassador or getting a cabinet position with. There is more here, and if the FBI has Obama on tape making deals to get the person he wants to take over his seat...
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I believe much of the discussion was between him and his staff. If a senate candidate was involved they'll probably get kicked under the bus as well. According to this report Obama played it straight in response to Rod's offers.

Governor fumes as Obama team plays it straight

"Unless I get something real good for [Senate Candidate 1], sh**, I'll just send myself [to the Senate], you know what I'm saying?"
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Sometimes I think Rod is just stupid, he probably believes he wasn't breaking the law. Either that or he's taking a shot at claiming diminished capacity.
 
rsixing said:
Actually if you do the math it's very close. That and it was my way of highlighting the guilt by association tactic of some around here. Like since this governor is from Illinois and Obama is a senator from Illinois there must be some sort of connection between the two. Just as there is this senator from Alaska and Palin is a governor from Alaska so...well...you get the idea.

It was meant tongue in cheek (ergo the :spin:smilie) but some others missed that part...conveniently.
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Ignore the man behind the curtain Jall, rsixing isn't here to debate. He already said as much. Its why he's still peddling this bull****. The math isn't "close" at all. He's still yet to show in any way a systemic amount of corruption in Alaska even close to that in Illinois. He's pointed out one person and tried to make his point, horridly and with complete fail. He got called on his little partisan snipe and had a hissy fit. No one previously was talking about "sides", but simply talking about Illinois politics as a whole but...as he later admitted....his comment was nothing but hyper partisan hackery trying to go at the "other side", despite the fact he was the first to really interject "sides" into this. All becuase someone DARED to question his ever so precious Obama. Where everyone else in the thread was at best connecting Obama to a decades old, multiple politicial, system wide corrupt political institution he tried to say a single corrupt senator is somehow "sort of" the same of it for no other reason than to score political points. When he got called on it, he suddenly didn't want to talk about someone disagreeing with his hack point and now its "just a joke", which if that's the case I'd advise him to not make ****ty, erronious jokes unless he plans on backing it up.

Really, there's no point in comment on it. He doesn't want to debate politics, he wants to rant stand about politics. As evident by him not responding once in any actual factual way to anyone questioning his bogus, erronious statement.
 
Zyphlin said:
Ignore the man behind the curtain Jall, rsixing isn't here to debate. He already said as much. Its why he's still peddling this bull****. The math isn't "close" at all. He's still yet to show in any way a systemic amount of corruption in Alaska even close to that in Illinois. He's pointed out one person and tried to make his point, horridly and with complete fail. He got called on his little partisan snipe and had a hissy fit. No one previously was talking about "sides", but simply talking about Illinois politics as a whole but...as he later admitted....his comment was nothing but hyper partisan hackery trying to go at the "other side", despite the fact he was the first to really interject "sides" into this. All becuase someone DARED to question his ever so precious Obama. Where everyone else in the thread was at best connecting Obama to a decades old, multiple politicial, system wide corrupt political institution he tried to say a single corrupt senator is somehow "sort of" the same of it for no other reason than to score political points. When he got called on it, he suddenly didn't want to talk about someone disagreeing with his hack point and now its "just a joke", which if that's the case I'd advise him to not make ****ty, erronious jokes unless he plans on backing it up.

Really, there's no point in comment on it. He doesn't want to debate politics, he wants to rant stand about politics. As evident by him not responding once in any actual factual way to anyone questioning his bogus, erronious statement.
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Oh, that hurts my widdle feewings. You're talking bad about me to someone else and still don't think my posts are good...boohooo... :roll:
 
Not meant to hurt your feelings. Though thanks for just further showing you're the liberal equivilent of some of our right-wing partisan hacks, who has no care for actual debate or backing up outrageous claims you make when called about it and instead result to pointless little diatribes like "hurts my wittle feeweings" and "boohoo".

Once again, i'm sorry if you're offended or upset that I dare to respond to the statements you make on a message board about debating politics but if you continue to make poorly thought out statements I'll continue to show why they're poor.
 
Zyphlin said:
Not meant to hurt your feelings. Though thanks for just further showing you're the liberal equivilent of some of our right-wing partisan hacks, who has no care for actual debate or backing up outrageous claims you make when called about it and instead result to pointless little diatribes like "hurts my wittle feeweings" and "boohoo".

Once again, i'm sorry if you're offended or upset that I dare to respond to the statements you make on a message board about debating politics but if you continue to make poorly thought out statements I'll continue to show why they're poor.
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No apology necessary.
 
rsixing said:
Actually if you do the math it's very close. That and it was my way of highlighting the guilt by association tactic of some around here. Like since this governor is from Illinois and Obama is a senator from Illinois there must be some sort of connection between the two. Just as there is this senator from Alaska and Palin is a governor from Alaska so...well...you get the idea.

It was meant tongue in cheek (ergo the :spin:smilie) but some others missed that part...conveniently.
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What irony coming from people who claimed that there was guilt by association of the entire Bush Administration in the comedic spoof known as the Plame affair.

The only time people like you appear to be skeptical is if the person has an "R" next to their names; but if you have a "D", you require irrefutable proof and suggest that guilt by association is only righteous if YOU do it.

It truly is a comedy we see unfolding in the Congress and Illinois scumbag politics; it might even be funny if it wasn't so harmful to the credibility of our political processes.
 
Truth Detector said:
What irony coming from people who claimed that there was guilt by association of the entire Bush Administration in the comedic spoof known as the Plame affair.
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Actually I was a republican during the Plame affair so you're hypocritically doing what you're claiming I did; because I'm a dem I'm guilty by association. How ironic is that? (a retorical question)

The only time people like you appear to be skeptical is if the person has an "R" next to their names; but if you have a "D", you require irrefutable proof and suggest that guilt by association is only righteous if YOU do it.
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Sometimes that's true, at times we're all guilty of being partisan. Excuse me if you feel you should be excluded from that.

It truly is a comedy we see unfolding in the Congress and Illinois scumbag politics; it might even be funny if it wasn't so harmful to the credibility of our political processes.
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First you would have to prove our political processes has "credibility", not just Chicago or Illinois politics, to declare this as harmful. No. Methinks this is just another example of where our political processes has taken us and further proves how corrupt man can be given the opportunity and position of power.
 
Truth Detector said:
What irony coming from people who claimed that there was guilt by association of the entire Bush Administration in the comedic spoof known as the Plame affair.

The only time people like you appear to be skeptical is if the person has an "R" next to their names; but if you have a "D", you require irrefutable proof and suggest that guilt by association is only righteous if YOU do it.

It truly is a comedy we see unfolding in the Congress and Illinois scumbag politics; it might even be funny if it wasn't so harmful to the credibility of our political processes.
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I think the sentiment is shared by most that it would be a relief it turns out Obama was not involved in the corruption. I'm not proclaiming its so, but that I hope it is so. What a terrible blow to our country it would be to find this out now. How we show this sentiment varies, some are in denial, others think its a conspiracy, and others are laughing at Illinois while secretly dreading what is to come.
 
shiznit770 said:
I think the sentiment is shared by most that it would be a relief it turns out Obama was not involved in the corruption. I'm not proclaiming its so, but that I hope it is so. What a terrible blow to our country it would be to find this out now. How we show this sentiment varies, some are in denial, others think its a conspiracy, and others are laughing at Illinois while secretly dreading what is to come.
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This is one of your more sensible posts; we are in agreement on this one.

As much as I disagree with Obama's politics, this would be a disaster if Obama is connected in any way with the shady politics surrounding almost all his past associations in Chicago politics.

It is my sincere hope that he is not dragged into this case; but better to vet him now than to wait until AFTER his inauguration in my opinion.
 
On Monday, the Illinois General Assembly will propose and vote on a new bill that would strip Governor Rod Blagojevich of the power to appoint a new Illinois Senator to replace Barack Obama. The seat would be filled via a statewide general election. Blagojevich could veto the bill, but the General Assembly could then in turn overturn his veto. Illinois Attorney General Lisa Madigan has promised to seek a court restraining order on behalf of Illinois citizens if Blagojevich dares to appoint anyone before the new bill takes effect.
 
aps said:
I wonder how Patrick Fitzgerald's indictment against the governor will be received by those who thought his indictment against Scooter Libby was a joke. Will you claim that these allegations are a joke too? Or did Fitzgerald turn into a reputable US Attorney since he stopped being the special prosecutor?

I don't see this situation implicating Obama. I really don't.
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There is a difference between mis-remembering a conversation some months back (when the only crime is in mis-remembering - a process crime) and seeking to sell to the highest bidder a Senate seat, and having actual recordings of conversations by the accused in the hands of the prosecutor. However, I still would not trust the prosecutor here. This looks like some very quick action to put a stop to things which might go too far and get out of control.

In the last day Jonathan Alter (Newsweek and NBC News) said “I would not be surprised if Blagojevich did not tell lies about Obama in this to try to bring him down” Any clues to what he may fear Blago saying? What about Blago's inference to wanting an Ambassadorial appointment? Who makes Ambassadorial appointments?

...
 
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Anyone hear if any names have been revealed, specifically if anyone made offers to Rod. I know Fox news threw Jesse Jackson Jr. out there and hinted that he may have offered up to 500k, but I couldn't find any articles on it.
 
Truth Detector said:
This is one of your more sensible posts; we are in agreement on this one.

As much as I disagree with Obama's politics, this would be a disaster if Obama is connected in any way with the shady politics surrounding almost all his past associations in Chicago politics.

It is my sincere hope that he is not dragged into this case; but better to vet him now than to wait until AFTER his inauguration in my opinion.
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I don't know why but since yesterday I can't evade to hear the melody of the theme of the Godfather's movie every time Obama is shown on TV...:doh
 
Tashah said:
On Monday, the Illinois General Assembly will propose and vote on a new bill that would strip Governor Rod Blagojevich of the power to appoint a new Illinois Senator to replace Barack Obama. The seat would be filled via a statewide general election. Blagojevich could veto the bill, but the General Assembly could then in turn overturn his veto. Illinois Attorney General Lisa Madigan has promised to seek a court restraining order on behalf of Illinois citizens if Blagojevich dares to appoint anyone before the new bill takes effect.
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This is exactly what they should be doing. This man is so arrogant, that I think he would try to get that seat filled. He's a complete jackass.

Speaking of jackasses, his wife sounds like she isn't any different than her husband.

However, according to the complaint, [Blagojevich's wife] was the voice in the background spewing an ugly suggestion to "just fire" some newspaper editors if the Tribune Co. hoped for state assistance to sell Wrigley Field, the storied home of the Chicago Cubs.

"Hold up that (expletive) Cubs (expletive)," she says as her husband is talking on the telephone. "(Expletive) them."

Governor's arrest puts spotlight on wife - Politics- msnbc.com
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Classy, Mrs. Blagojevich....real classy. :roll: I hope she's implicated. It sounds like she has had problems in the past with dishonesty.
 
AuHtwoh64 said:
There is a difference between mis-remembering a conversation some months back (when the only crime is in mis-remembering - a process crime) and seeking to sell to the highest bidder a Senate seat, and having actual recordings of conversations by the accused in the hands of the prosecutor. However, I still would not trust the prosecutor here. This looks like some very quick action to put a stop to things which might go too far and get out of control.

In the last day Jonathan Alter (Newsweek and NBC News) said “I would not be surprised if Blagojevich did not tell lies about Obama in this to try to bring him down” Any clues to what he may fear Blago saying? What about Blago's inference to wanting an Ambassadorial appointment? Who makes Ambassadorial appointments?

...
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Your description of Libby's charges shows me how partisan you are. There is a difference between misrembering and lying before a grand jury. I believe that a jury convicted him of lying. Do you know something that they don't? Did you sit in the courtroom day in and day out listening to everyone's testimony? Do you have evidence that the jury didn't see? I doubt it.
 
Ikari said:
Chicago is corrupt. You can not trust Chicago politicians. They are good at hiding what they do as the whole of the system from the politicians to the cops to the judges are corrupt. I've seen that system, I know what they are about. To come up through the Chicago political system means shady dealings. I don't care if there is an R or a D or whatever next to your name. They all take bribes, the political machine there is not dead. It's very much run like organized crime from top to bottom. That is an absolute. Trust a Chicago politician at your own risk. Obama is dirty, even his little land deal which while technically legal horribly abused the spirit of the law. That's how it is done there, they write the rules, they enforce the rules, they judge the rules, they make sure there are enough loopholes for themselves to get away with whatever it is they feel like getting away with. Absolute.
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What a ridiculous and unsubstantiated conclusion! You have nothing, zero, not one shred of proof to back anything you've written except "any politician from Chicago is corrutp."

I've read a lot of things in this thread and not one other poster has come close to making **** up and preaching it as truth as you have. I stated previously that you've lost this particular debate big time because debates are based on making points with verifiable facts and your entire argument does not contain one fact that links Obama to anything that has to do with corruption in Chicago other than he lives there!

C'mon now, how about debating with some proof and how about you toss out the bull**** partisan posts that you've made and instead try using the truth to back up your point of view.

You do realize that the only people in this thread who could possibly agree with you are people who have a prejudice against Obama and will support almost anything negative about him that you would claim truth be damned?
 
Zyphlin said:
He's still yet to show in any way a systemic amount of corruption in Alaska even close to that in Illinois.
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Well I can prove statistically that Alaska is far more corrupt politically based on political crimes per 100,000 population. The great state of Alaska is the THIRD MOST CORRUPT STATE in the USA when you measure actual convictions of politicians per 100,000 people.

North Dakota is first
Louisiana is second
ALASKA IS THIRD
Mississippi is fourth and
Montana is fifth.

Illinois is ranked 18th! Not even close to the worst state.

North Dakota tops analysis of corruption - USATODAY.com

North Dakota Tops State Corruption List

Alaska has a US senator who has been convicted of felonies THIS year. Alaska is as corrupt as it gets politically and to deny this is to deny the facts.
 
Truth Detector said:
What irony coming from people who claimed that there was guilt by association of the entire Bush Administration in the comedic spoof known as the Plame affair.

The only time people like you appear to be skeptical is if the person has an "R" next to their names; but if you have a "D", you require irrefutable proof and suggest that guilt by association is only righteous if YOU do it.

It truly is a comedy we see unfolding in the Congress and Illinois scumbag politics; it might even be funny if it wasn't so harmful to the credibility of our political processes.
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The convicted felon/liar Scooter Libby was the Chief of Staff to the Vice President of the United States. That is not guilt by association that is someone taking a big, long **** in their own backyard.
 
Family Guy said:
Well I can prove statistically that Alaska is far more corrupt politically based on political crimes per 100,000 population. The great state of Alaska is the THIRD MOST CORRUPT STATE in the USA when you measure actual convictions of politicians per 100,000 people.

North Dakota is first
Louisiana is second
ALASKA IS THIRD
Mississippi is fourth and
Montana is fifth.

Illinois is ranked 18th! Not even close to the worst state.

North Dakota tops analysis of corruption - USATODAY.com

North Dakota Tops State Corruption List

Alaska has a US senator who has been convicted of felonies THIS year. Alaska is as corrupt as it gets politically and to deny this is to deny the facts.
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My friends and I were discussing this last night. But North Dakota-style politics doesn't sound nearly as nefarious as Chicago-style Politics does.

Plus people like to smear Chicago because we are so much better than every other place in the world...

Chicago > Everwhere Else
 
Tucker Case said:
My friends and I were discussing this last night. But North Dakota-style politics doesn't sound nearly as nefarious as Chicago-style Politics does.

Plus people like to smear Chicago because we are so much better than every other place in the world...

Chicago > Everwhere Else
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It's kind of hard to argue with the facts, isn't it? The poster (Jallman) who was so defensive about Alaska and how it is in no way as politically corrupt as Illinois was speaking from his heart not from his head.

Hell ex-Senator and convicted felon Ted Stevens was found guilty on seven felony counts and still only lost the election by a few thousand votes so it's not just the politicians in Alaska who accept corruption but it's also the general populace who are willing to overlook felonies by their Senator because he was great at bringing home the bacon for Alaska...isn't that like the general public accepting bribes for their vote...aka "Pay to Play"?
 
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