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Thread: Rice regrets bad Iraq intelligence; defends war

  1. #41
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    Re: Rice regrets bad Iraq intelligence; defends war

    Quote Originally Posted by rsixing View Post
    The lack of support from within our own nation and the reaction from our allies should have been a wake-up call for you warmongers but no. All of you were only bent on one thing...war.
    Lack of support within the US? Data, please...

    There was overwhelming support from both the public and Congress. That support waned because within four days Democrats and the media were pissing themselves and screaming "Quagmire" (which was probably a record given they waited 4 weeks to wail 'Quagmire' in Afghanistan).

    Now we must set about the task of repairing our international reputation because of what Bush and your ilk have done through your warmongering desires of preemptively attacking a sovereign nation incapable of hurting us, supporting human rights violations and torture, isolationism and " bring it on" "you're either with us or against us" sabre rattling.
    What repairs are necessary? We see pro-American leaders in Germany, France, and Italy. We see pro-American leaders in Eastern Europe.

    I could care less if Russia, China, parts of Africa and Latin America think poorly of our reputation. And their perception of such certainly shouldn't impact how the US views its national interests or pursues policies to address those interests, short of precipitating open war.

    Apples and Oranges.
    Clown, it was bin Laden himself who cited Somalia when he declared the US a paper tiger...get your **** straight.

    Your dehumanization of American deaths only proves your callousness and cowardly willingness to let others die for YOUR "safety".
    Questioning your logic is to dehumanize American deaths (you probably meant soldiers) and displays a callousness about others fighting wars?

    Get over yourself. Your opinion ain't that important and questioning your opinion doesn't reflect any regard for others.

    Unfortunately we'll never know since Bush preemptively invaded a nation that was no imminent threat to us.
    John Rockefeller and John Edwards believed Iraq was an immnent threat.

    I believe we must take responsibility for our own actions. You're clearly incapable of doing that.
    No, you're not accepting responsibility. In your eyes, the US is always at fault. Your "understanding" of others simply used to cast America in the worst light possible. Apparently, for you, American has no legitimate interests. But Iran does.

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    Re: Rice regrets bad Iraq intelligence; defends war

    Quote Originally Posted by bhkad View Post
    JMak, as you respond to my posts please remember that I love Bush and have been defending his administration and the war since before the 2004 election.
    Irrelevant.

    You are fairly new here and I am used to the denizens at DP being possessed of certain information. My bad.
    Than why suggest I hit the history books? Why not simply say what you mean? It's not like you need to provide reams of links. Simply designate what it is you are referring to.

    The onus was not on Israel to save US.
    No argued so.

    The Israelis COULD have launched a first strike on Iraq but it would have cost the US a great deal of grief. (See Georgia's Saakashvilli for lessons on how an ally should not act without first consulting the US.)
    Huh? So, in 2002, when you say that this growing threat peaked compelling Israel to ask the US to remove Hussein, Israel could have struck first, but didn't because it might have given the US a headache, so it asked the US to directly intervene and thereby ensure such a headache?

    The Israelis counseled Pres. Bush.
    Counseled him how?

    More to come.
    Please don't bother.

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    Re: Rice regrets bad Iraq intelligence; defends war

    Saddam threatens Israel, Briefings

    Iraqi President Saddam Hussein has taken the opportunity of a television address on Iraq's national day to launch a call for an attack on Israel by the Arabs. Coming shortly before the 11th anniversary of Iraq's invasion of neighbouring Kuwait, there can be little doubt that Saddam's ambition to play a dominant role in regional politics is succeeding.

    We have long warned that the threat posed by Saddam is mounting. He has repeatedly snubbed the United Nations over the issue of weapons inspections. He has scored a major victory - with the active assistance of Russia -with the failure of the Americans and the British proposals to amend the UN 'food-for-oil' sanctions regime. In fact, the existing sanctions regime has proved a failure and Iraq continues to export oil illicitly to Jordan and Turkey (see JID 13 July 2001).

    http://www.janes.com/articles/Janes-...ns-Israel.html

    OBL 11/24/02

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    Re: Rice regrets bad Iraq intelligence; defends war

    Quote Originally Posted by JMak View Post
    Irrelevant.

    Than why suggest I hit the history books? Why not simply say what you mean? It's not like you need to provide reams of links. Simply designate what it is you are referring to.

    No argued so.

    Huh? So, in 2002, when you say that this growing threat peaked compelling Israel to ask the US to remove Hussein, Israel could have struck first, but didn't because it might have given the US a headache, so it asked the US to directly intervene and thereby ensure such a headache?

    Counseled him how?

    Please don't bother.
    I want you to know you are starting to try my patience. If you continue insulting me I will embarrass you and I am trying reeeal hard not to allow you to push my button that way.

    If you want to gain knowledge I will oblige you. If you want to scrap let me know.

    I am giving you the choice.


    OBL 11/24/02

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    Re: Rice regrets bad Iraq intelligence; defends war

    Quote Originally Posted by bhkad View Post
    I want you to know you are starting to try my patience. If you continue insulting me I will embarrass you and I am trying reeeal hard not to allow you to push my button that way.
    Asking you to establish your premises is angering you? Take it easy, pal.

    You made a specific claim. I challenged the claim. You responded by not addressing my challenge but demanding that I read books and divine from them what you realyl meant. I called BS.

    Don't blame me.

    You say that there was no legit reason(s) for this war. I said there were and were clearly expressed by our government.

    You say that because there was no legit reason for the war there must be some other explanation. Your explanation is that Israel asked the US to take down Hussein because Israel felt threatened. Your explanation also indicated that Israel had felt threatened for a decade prior to 2002.

    I simply asked why Israel would ask the US to intervene in 2002. In other words, what chagned about the threat that motivated Israel believe that war was necessary when it hadn't felt that way the previous ten years?

    I then cited Israel's action when it actually did feel threatened by Iraq and they did unilaterally attack Iraq to question why Israel would supposedly defer and seek the US's help in taking out Saddam.

    You ducked.

    You then argued that the reason Israel didn't act on its own was because doing so would have caused the US grief...so Israel asked the US to do the job herself and ensure she would experience the totality of grief. That doesn't make any sense.

    It's not my problem that your argument is not coherent.

    If you want to gain knowledge I will oblige you. If you want to scrap let me know.
    I asked you several times to fill in the blanks.

    You insist I go fishing in my history books and simply divine whatever it is you're really saying.

    Get a grip.

    I am giving you the choice.
    How about presenting a coherent argument? Start with that and we'll go from there. Otherwise, grab a paper bag and take some deep breaths, tough guy.

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    Re: Rice regrets bad Iraq intelligence; defends war

    Quote Originally Posted by JMak View Post
    Asking you to establish your premises is angering you? Take it easy, pal.

    You made a specific claim. I challenged the claim. You responded by not addressing my challenge but demanding that I read books and divine from them what you realyl meant. I called BS.

    Don't blame me.

    You say that there was no legit reason(s) for this war. I said there were and were clearly expressed by our government.

    You say that because there was no legit reason for the war there must be some other explanation. Your explanation is that Israel asked the US to take down Hussein because Israel felt threatened. Your explanation also indicated that Israel had felt threatened for a decade prior to 2002.

    I simply asked why Israel would ask the US to intervene in 2002. In other words, what chagned about the threat that motivated Israel believe that war was necessary when it hadn't felt that way the previous ten years?

    I then cited Israel's action when it actually did feel threatened by Iraq and they did unilaterally attack Iraq to question why Israel would supposedly defer and seek the US's help in taking out Saddam.

    You ducked.

    You then argued that the reason Israel didn't act on its own was because doing so would have caused the US grief...so Israel asked the US to do the job herself and ensure she would experience the totality of grief. That doesn't make any sense.

    It's not my problem that your argument is not coherent.



    I asked you several times to fill in the blanks.

    You insist I go fishing in my history books and simply divine whatever it is you're really saying.

    Get a grip.



    How about presenting a coherent argument? Start with that and we'll go from there. Otherwise, grab a paper bag and take some deep breaths, tough guy.
    Know what?

    You win.

    Good night and good luck.

    OBL 11/24/02

  7. #47
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    Re: Rice regrets bad Iraq intelligence; defends war

    Quote Originally Posted by JMak View Post
    There was overwhelming support from both the public and Congress. That support waned because within four days Democrats and the media were pissing themselves and screaming "Quagmire" (which was probably a record given they waited 4 weeks to wail 'Quagmire' in Afghanistan).
    Both those in support of this debacle, public and congressional, were wrong from the beginning.

    What repairs are necessary? We see pro-American leaders in Germany, France, and Italy. We see pro-American leaders in Eastern Europe.

    I could care less if Russia, China, parts of Africa and Latin America think poorly of our reputation. And their perception of such certainly shouldn't impact how the US views its national interests or pursues policies to address those interests, short of precipitating open war.
    Pursuing national, even international interests and policies to address these interests should not be at the expense of our reputation nor at the expense of discarding other national opinions that we don't like. Remember, more flies with honey then vinegar but then that doesn't matter to you right? Rattle that saber baby, rattle that saber.

    Clown, it was bin Laden himself who cited Somalia when he declared the US a paper tiger...get your **** straight.
    Insults get you no where.

    Bin Laden later usurped Mog for his own propaganda machine. Yes later intel says he had advisers there but do you honestly believe Mog had earmarks of AQ influence?

    Questioning your logic is to dehumanize American deaths (you probably meant soldiers) and displays a callousness about others fighting wars?

    Get over yourself. Your opinion ain't that important and questioning your opinion doesn't reflect any regard for others.
    Your words show a true callousness toward the real human cost of war and a morally bankrupt willingness to devalue any loss of American lives under a banner of the ends justify the means, or as Rice intoned "a strategic victory".

    John Rockefeller and John Edwards believed Iraq was an imminent threat.
    So?

    No, you're not accepting responsibility. In your eyes, the US is always at fault. Your "understanding" of others simply used to cast America in the worst light possible. Apparently, for you, American has no legitimate interests. But Iran does.
    America can stand up to the truth about ourself as we have in the past and we will today and in the future. There is no dishonor in that.

    We fail as a nation when we hide from our mistakes and try to bury them behind fabricated justifications, lies and terms meant to instill false patriotism like "legitimate interests" and those who differ with you, like me, would comfort the enemy. I pity you.

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    Re: Rice regrets bad Iraq intelligence; defends war

    Quote Originally Posted by bhkad View Post
    I'll make a deal with you...let's don't but say we did.

    I already did. Only because it was so reminiscent of when SNL was actually funny. Oh Eddie Murphy? Can anybody else make Mr. Rogers as funny as you? No Nigga. Nobody can.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Rice regrets bad Iraq intelligence; defends war

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    What I find interesting is that often Republicans in favor of removing Saddam and are against Tyrants still love Reagan, who's adminstration saw numerous overthrows of legitimate democracies and the installation of fascist dictators. Doesn't seem to make much sense.
    Cartoonish leftwing pseudo-history for the consumption of the lowest grade obamabot dupe.

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    Re: Rice regrets bad Iraq intelligence; defends war

    Quote Originally Posted by rsixing View Post
    Both those in support of this debacle, public and congressional, were wrong from the beginning.
    Wrong is a judgment. That's a really nice opinion that you have. But wholly irrelevant to the point I was addressing with the comment you quoted.

    Pursuing national, even international interests and policies to address these interests should not be at the expense of our reputation nor at the expense of discarding other national opinions that we don't like.
    Wow? The US should avoid protecting her interests so that we don't offend the likes of Kim Il, Ahmadijenad, Medvedev, Mguabe, et al? I mean, I might consider Russia's feeling if I were to be putting subs in the Black Sea and putting intermediate nukes in Poland, but short of something like that...offending their sensibilities is about the last thing we should be concerned about.

    Your logic has subjugating our national security to a popularity contest.

    Your words show a true callousness toward the real human cost of war and a morally bankrupt willingness to devalue any loss of American lives under a banner of the ends justify the means, or as Rice intoned "a strategic victory".
    Oh, please, drama queen. I have displayed no such thing.

    However, that you posted such a sentiment truly does reveal your cynical attitude towards war...a punchline for weak political conspiracy arguments.

    America can stand up to the truth about ourself as we have in the past and we will today and in the future. There is no dishonor in that.
    Funny how the truth for you always involves the US being the bad actor.

    We fail as a nation when we hide from our mistakes and try to bury them behind fabricated justifications, lies and terms meant to instill false patriotism like "legitimate interests" and those who differ with you, like me, would comfort the enemy. I pity you.
    Your pity party is pathetic.

    You citing our nation's failings...a joke.

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