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Thread: Rice regrets bad Iraq intelligence; defends war

  1. #31
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    Re: Rice regrets bad Iraq intelligence; defends war

    Quote Originally Posted by bhkad View Post
    I can not do more than urge you to check your history book.
    You're being foolish. Consulting the history books will not validate your assertion that Iraq threatened Israel or that Israel believed that Iraq constituted a threat justifying war.

    ****, our history tells us that when Israel did feel threatened it didn't ask the US to do the dirty work. Nope, they unilaterally attacked Osirak and killed an Iraqi nuke plant.

    So, again, what in those history books speaks directly to Israel perceiving such a threat or Iraq presenting such a threat to israel?

    Look, it's your argument to make, not mine to divine what specifically you're referring to and then arguing against it.

    Please do it yourself in the future.
    This 'teaser' alludes to the truth of the matter. It was written in 1998.
    So, you refuse to actually establish the core of your argument. Got it.

    The reason, everyone knows, for Israel not defending itself in the 1991 war was because GHW Bush wanted to preserve the Gulf War coalition's Arab participation so Israel was urged to stay out.
    Who is arguing otherwise?

    This doesn't speak at all, in any way at all, to your assertion that Israel felt threatened by Iraq or that Iraq directly threatened Israel and thereby motivating Israel to come to the US asking the US to take down Saddam.

    Not only that, we have recent history that demonstrates that Israel will act on its accord to kill any such threat, again, see Osirak.

    During the war, as SCUD missiles fell on Israel, the USA had to work hard to keep Israel out of the war because Saddam was TRYING to provoke Israel to retaliate. He knew Israel's entry into the war could hurt the coalition.
    I see, so Israel waited until to 2002 to address this "threat" and ask the US to take care of it.

    Why wait if the threat was so compelling that the only resolution was removing Hussein?

    Not much changed in regard to the threat posed by Iraq to Israel except that Saddam became more menacing and had more (Oil for Food) cash to buy more WMD materials and other armaments.
    I see, so a threat that justified war in 1991 just grew and grew until 2002 and at that point...what? What precipitated a change in Israel's thinking?

    Check your history.
    Lame. Weak. Pathetic.

    I'm supposed to divine from some unidentified history book what you really mean?

    Do you believe that you have no obligation to present an argument to substantiate your assertions?

    You're a joke, too.

    I love this attitude by some of you that you have no obligation to actually present arguments. That your word is a legitimate substitute for actually establishing facts and drawing logical conclusions from them...

    You're like a lefty BDS sufferer in this respect.

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    Re: Rice regrets bad Iraq intelligence; defends war

    Quote Originally Posted by Iriemon View Post
    Your claim is that Iraq had WMDs for 20 years, but the Bush administration needed to attack Iraq in Mar 2003 to prevent the Israelis from attacking Iraq and starting a broad ME war.

    Imaginative.
    I think your post is much more imaginative.

    I did not say that Iraq had WMD's for 20 years.

    I urge you to heed my advice to JMak.

    60 Minutes + George Piro

    OBL 11/24/02

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    Re: Rice regrets bad Iraq intelligence; defends war

    Quote Originally Posted by sazerac View Post
    And I need a new brain. That's not what I wanted to quote and I can't even find what it was that I disagreed with.

    I'm very sorry.
    That's ok. No prob.


    OBL 11/24/02

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    Re: Rice regrets bad Iraq intelligence; defends war

    Quote Originally Posted by rsixing View Post
    The most contradicted statement from Rice, to me, was "...I still believe that the overthrow of Saddam Hussein is going to turn out to be a great strategic achievement.". Yeah? Really? Like...what kind of "strategic achievement"?

    A strategy to alienate America from the rest of the world? Mission Accomplished!

    A strategy to embolden AQ and BL? Mission Accomplished!

    A strategy to have thousands of Americas finest men and women killed? Mission Accomplished!

    A strategy to pay billions and billions of $ in cost plus to Halliburten and other non-bidded contractors? Mission Accomplished!

    A strategy to keep America from capturing BL so Bush and his ilk can continue their half-shod WoT? Mission Accomplished!

    Yeah...that's really worked and a BRILLIANT ****ing strategic achievement there Rice. Stoopid bitch.
    Within the next 4 years you will distance yourself from these comments and will feel embarassed at having made them.

    Afghanistan was a very smart war to avoid if possible. Armies go there to lose and leave in defeat. Bush was able to cut our losses and minimize our commitment to it in favor of doing something that WILL have an effect on the Middle East.

    OBL 11/24/02

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    Re: Rice regrets bad Iraq intelligence; defends war

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Psychotic kid kills neighbor's dog because he didn't like it barking and then when he was in front of his parents he said that in the future the neighbor will find that it was a great strategic move because with the economy the way it's going he won't have to worry about buying dog food.

    Another gout of rancid nonsense from the high-master thereof.

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    Re: Rice regrets bad Iraq intelligence; defends war

    Quote Originally Posted by bhkad View Post
    I think your post is much more imaginative.

    I did not say that Iraq had WMD's for 20 years.

    I urge you to heed my advice to JMak.

    60 Minutes + George Piro
    I didn't say you did. If Iraq had WMDs in 2003 when under your theory Israel was about to strike, Iraq would have had them for 20 years.

    Iraq first obtained WMDs when the Reagan administration gave Iraq the green light to purchase chemicals to make them.

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    Re: Rice regrets bad Iraq intelligence; defends war

    Quote Originally Posted by JMak View Post
    Yeah, because pre-Iraq war the US was beloved by all, right? I love how you guys have this kumbya vision of the world that the US radically upset in early 2003...
    The lack of support from within our own nation and the reaction from our allies should have been a wake-up call for you warmongers but no. All of you were only bent on one thing...war.

    Now we must set about the task of repairing our international reputation because of what Bush and your ilk have done through your warmongering desires of preemptively attacking a sovereign nation incapable of hurting us, supporting human rights violations and torture, isolationism and " bring it on" "you're either with us or against us" sabre rattling.

    Abandoning Somalia to warlords and terrorists didn't do that, huh? Treating the bombings of the US embassies, military installations, and naval vessels as common crimes didn't embolden them, huh?
    Apples and Oranges.

    So no decision to go to war can ever be assessed as a "strategic victory" if it involves the deaths of US military personnel?
    Your dehumanization of American deaths only proves your callousness and cowardly willingness to let others die for YOUR "safety".

    You're a joke.
    Oh, good one.

    I guess we could have spent another decade enforcing sanctions and no-fly zones, right? Maybe if we just gave the inspectors just a little more time, Hussein would have complied, right?
    Unfortunately we'll never know since Bush preemptively invaded a nation that was no imminent threat to us.

    What pathetic Blame America First nonsense.
    I believe we must take responsibility for our own actions. You're clearly incapable of doing that.
    Last edited by rsixing; 12-09-08 at 03:20 PM.

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    Re: Rice regrets bad Iraq intelligence; defends war

    NOW....she voices her regrets. Whatsa' matter rice - trying to finagle a position with Obama?

    She made her bed, now she can lie in it - a lot of Americans and other countrymen died because of this sell-out.

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    Re: Rice regrets bad Iraq intelligence; defends war

    Quote Originally Posted by bhkad View Post
    Within the next 4 years you will distance yourself from these comments and will feel embarassed at having made them.

    Afghanistan was a very smart war to avoid if possible. Armies go there to lose and leave in defeat. Bush was able to cut our losses and minimize our commitment to it in favor of doing something that WILL have an effect on the Middle East.
    I will never regret being against the Iraq war and now the Iraq occupation from the very beginning so you can put that non-sequitur aside.

    All Bush was able to do was divert our military attention from where it should have been for what. The things I pointed out.

    Now after this supposed "strategic achievement" as Rice observed the Taliban and AQ are resurgent and we are back where we started. But now we are facing an even more capable, well-armed, well financed and dedicated enemy not only in Afghanistan but in Pakistan and India. Yea. Good job Bush.


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    Re: Rice regrets bad Iraq intelligence; defends war

    NOTE TO SELF: You get real good at certain things when you do them enough times. And you get real calloused. And you grow impatient with some things. And you often get tired of doing the same things over and over, ad nauseum. And sometimes you forget certain basic facts.

    Not everyone knows what you do. Some people are just coming on board and we need bright new colleagues so, instead of seeing every challenge as one to be vanquished it's better to put one's pride aside temporarily to show why someone should want to be your ally.
    END OF NOTE TO SELF.

    JMak, as you respond to my posts please remember that I love Bush and have been defending his administration and the war since before the 2004 election.

    Quote Originally Posted by JMak View Post
    You're being foolish. Consulting the history books will not validate your assertion that Iraq threatened Israel or that Israel believed that Iraq constituted a threat justifying war.

    ****, our history tells us that when Israel did feel threatened it didn't ask the US to do the dirty work. Nope, they unilaterally attacked Osirak and killed an Iraqi nuke plant.

    So, again, what in those history books speaks directly to Israel perceiving such a threat or Iraq presenting such a threat to israel?

    Look, it's your argument to make, not mine to divine what specifically you're referring to and then arguing against it.
    Results 1 - 10 of about 230,000 for Did Saddam threaten Israel?. (0.22 seconds)

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    Quote Originally Posted by JMak View Post
    So, you refuse to actually establish the core of your argument. Got it.
    You are fairly new here and I am used to the denizens at DP being possessed of certain information. My bad.

    Quote Originally Posted by JMak View Post
    Who is arguing otherwise?

    This doesn't speak at all, in any way at all, to your assertion that Israel felt threatened by Iraq or that Iraq directly threatened Israel and thereby motivating Israel to come to the US asking the US to take down Saddam.

    Not only that, we have recent history that demonstrates that Israel will act on its accord to kill any such threat, again, see Osirak.
    The onus was not on Israel to save US.

    The Israelis COULD have launched a first strike on Iraq but it would have cost the US a great deal of grief. (See Georgia's Saakashvilli for lessons on how an ally should not act without first consulting the US.)

    The Israelis counseled Pres. Bush.

    Sharon warned Bush of Saddam threat
    By HERB KEINON

    Former prime minister Ariel Sharon told President George W. Bush ahead of the US-led invasion of Iraq of the dangers Saddam Hussein posed for the region, but also warned him that the Arab world would not be receptive to democracy, former ambassador to the US Danny Ayalon told The Jerusalem Post on Thursday.

    Ayalon, who sat in on numerous Bush-Sharon meetings, said the US and Israel held close consultations during the run-up to the war, but that Sharon was very careful not to advocate any particular American action.

    Ayalon said he served as "Sharon's watchdog," ensuring that when officials from the Defense or Foreign ministries came to Washington they would give US officials a "true analysis, but never cross the line of recommending policy."

    Israel, Ayalon said, did not tell the Americans what they should do, since Sharon was "astute and careful enough" to realize that this could lead to future accusations that Israel led the US into Iraq. But, Ayalon said, Bush did receive Sharon's analysis of the situation.

    According to Sharon, Saddam was an acute threat, and he supported his analysis by pointing to the Iraqi dictator's conduct during the Iran-Iraq War; his launching of 39 Scud missiles at Israel, and more than 40 at Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Bahrain, during the first Gulf War; his material and logistical support for terrorists; and his track record of intimidating his neighbors.

    In addition, Ayalon said the Saddam threat factor was driven home by the intelligence information that "we all shared" that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction, "especially in the chemical area."

    Another element involved in these analyses was the fact that despite Israel's bombing of Iraq's Osirak nuclear plant in 1981, Iraq still had the blueprints and technological know-how to create nuclear weapons, "and it was just the matter of finding the right moment to put their program back on track in a fast manner."


    http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satelli...icle%2FPrinter
    More to come.
    Last edited by bhkad; 12-09-08 at 04:28 PM.

    OBL 11/24/02

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