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Thread: Rice regrets bad Iraq intelligence; defends war

  1. #21
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    Re: Rice regrets bad Iraq intelligence; defends war

    Quote Originally Posted by JMak View Post
    Why would Israel be nervous? I don't recall Saddam making specific threats toward Israel. At least nothing that remotely resembles the degree and frequency that Iraq threatens Israel's existence.
    Check your history book. Israel is hated by MOST Muslim states and Muslims. And in the 1991 Gulf War Iraq launched dozens of SCUD missiles into Israel.

    Quote Originally Posted by JMak View Post
    Without any reason beyond wmd's? Bush was very clear what his reasons were (four to be precise) and the Congress was very clear what its reasons were (23 to be precise). I mean, come on...you ain't got the cred to revise history.
    You look at the things that we were told and the things we have seen and there is a void between the two perceptions.

    The Bush Bashers look at that void and fill it with evil and mal intent by Bushco. I look at the void and ask what would make everything else make sense?

    That is the rationale I've presented.

    I predate your tenure here so why don't you tell me about my cred.

    Quote Originally Posted by JMak View Post
    The only significance of Hussein adding the Islamic jihadist phrase is that it undermines the anti-war crowd's arguments that a secular Hussein was completely at odds with Islam-inspired OBL and AQ.
    That too. But what effect did it have on other Arabs and Muslims? I believe it added to HIS religious cred.

    Quote Originally Posted by JMak View Post
    Funny, how this legal justification for the war is completely ignored by the anti-war folks, eh?
    The Bush administration never defended itself against the criticisms and that gave the opposition the impression that the WMD's were the justification.

    OBL 11/24/02

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    Re: Rice regrets bad Iraq intelligence; defends war

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    This is probably the only post from you that will ever get a thanks from me. Treasure it.
    I'll make a deal with you...let's don't but say we did.


    OBL 11/24/02

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    Re: Rice regrets bad Iraq intelligence; defends war

    Originally Posted by Iriemon
    What evidence is there that Israel was about to take action against Iraq?

    Quote Originally Posted by bhkad View Post
    Deductive reasoning.

    When threatened what have the Israelis always done?

    Sought to remove the threat.

    If they thought Saddam might pose an existential threat what do you think they would do?

    What they've always done.

    They've removed the threat.

    Why wouldn't they?
    Your claim is that Iraq had WMDs for 20 years, but the Bush administration needed to attack Iraq in Mar 2003 to prevent the Israelis from attacking Iraq and starting a broad ME war.

    Imaginative.

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    Re: Rice regrets bad Iraq intelligence; defends war

    Quote Originally Posted by bhkad View Post
    Deductive reasoning.

    When threatened what have the Israelis always done?

    Sought to remove the threat.

    If they thought Saddam might pose an existential threat what do you think they would do?

    What they've always done.

    They've removed the threat.

    Why wouldn't they?
    Uh, don't you have to knida, well, you know, establish that Iraq was threatening Israel or, at least, establish that Israel perceived a threat from Iraq before you can conclude that Israel took action because Iraq was threatening her?

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    Re: Rice regrets bad Iraq intelligence; defends war

    Quote Originally Posted by bhkad View Post
    Check your history book. Israel is hated by MOST Muslim states and Muslims. And in the 1991 Gulf War Iraq launched dozens of SCUD missiles into Israel.
    Why do you suppose I am ignorant of these "facts?"

    These "facts" do not support your conclusion that Israel believed that Iraq was threatening her. Hell, if this is your argument, then Israel would perceive a threat from every Muslim state and wuld therefore be waging war against all of them. She is not. Your conclusion is bogus.

    You look at the things that we were told and the things we have seen and there is a void between the two perceptions.
    Um, do you not know how to read? I was responding to your assertion that there was no reason to remove Saddam Hussein. I cited four justifications cited by Bush and another 23 cited by the US Congress.

    The Bush Bashers look at that void and fill it with evil and mal intent by Bushco. I look at the void and ask what would make everything else make sense?
    The "everything else" being Israel feeling threatened by Iraq? You'll have to establish, first, that israel actually perceived such a threat.

    The Bush administration never defended itself against the criticisms and that gave the opposition the impression that the WMD's were the justification.
    You're right on this. I thought it strange that the administration rarely chose to defend itself.

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    Re: Rice regrets bad Iraq intelligence; defends war

    Quote Originally Posted by bhkad View Post
    I'm a Bushie.
    And I need a new brain. That's not what I wanted to quote and I can't even find what it was that I disagreed with.

    I'm very sorry.

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    Re: Rice regrets bad Iraq intelligence; defends war

    The most contradicted statement from Rice, to me, was "...I still believe that the overthrow of Saddam Hussein is going to turn out to be a great strategic achievement.". Yeah? Really? Like...what kind of "strategic achievement"?

    A strategy to alienate America from the rest of the world? Mission Accomplished!

    A strategy to embolden AQ and BL? Mission Accomplished!

    A strategy to have thousands of Americas finest men and women killed? Mission Accomplished!

    A strategy to pay billions and billions of $ in cost plus to Halliburten and other non-bidded contractors? Mission Accomplished!

    A strategy to keep America from capturing BL so Bush and his ilk can continue their half-shod WoT? Mission Accomplished!

    Yeah...that's really worked and a BRILLIANT ****ing strategic achievement there Rice. Stoopid bitch.

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    Re: Rice regrets bad Iraq intelligence; defends war

    Quote Originally Posted by JMak View Post
    Uh, don't you have to knida, well, you know, establish that Iraq was threatening Israel or, at least, establish that Israel perceived a threat from Iraq before you can conclude that Israel took action because Iraq was threatening her?
    I can not do more than urge you to check your history book.

    Please do it yourself in the future.

    This 'teaser' alludes to the truth of the matter. It was written in 1998.

    Israel must be prepared for a massive disproportionate retaliation against Iraq if attacked. Better than retaliation for new missile attacks, Israel should try to pre-empt Saddam's ability to endanger her ever again. Israel's failure to defend itself during the 1991 Persian Gulf War left a damaging psychological scar on the Israeli psyche. The experience of sitting helpless in sealed rooms created the climate for the Oslo appeasement. Israelis felt weak and impotent. After the war, when asked why they supported Oslo, they said they were "fatigued" after four decades of war. They wanted to stop fighting their war of survival. So they accepted the false notion of Oslo with its plan of trading land for "peace."

    --- Bernard J. Shapiro, Editor

    Bernard J. Shapiro is the executive Director of the Freeman Center For Strategic Studies and editor of its monthly magazine, THE MACCABEAN.

    http://www.freeman.org/m_online/mar98/eisenber.htm
    The reason, everyone knows, for Israel not defending itself in the 1991 war was because GHW Bush wanted to preserve the Gulf War coalition's Arab participation so Israel was urged to stay out.

    During the war, as SCUD missiles fell on Israel, the USA had to work hard to keep Israel out of the war because Saddam was TRYING to provoke Israel to retaliate. He knew Israel's entry into the war could hurt the coalition.

    Not much changed in regard to the threat posed by Iraq to Israel except that Saddam became more menacing and had more (Oil for Food) cash to buy more WMD materials and other armaments.

    Check your history.

    Here is another clue.

    CBS 60 Minutes George Piro.

    OBL 11/24/02

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    Re: Rice regrets bad Iraq intelligence; defends war

    Quote Originally Posted by JMak View Post
    Why do you suppose I am ignorant of these "facts?"

    Quote Originally Posted by JMak
    Why would Israel be nervous? I don't recall Saddam making specific threats toward Israel. At least nothing that remotely resembles the degree and frequency that Iraq threatens Israel's existence.
    These "facts" do not support your conclusion that Israel believed that Iraq was threatening her. Hell, if this is your argument, then Israel would perceive a threat from every Muslim state and wuld therefore be waging war against all of them. She is not. Your conclusion is bogus.
    (See the answer above.)

    Quote Originally Posted by JMak View Post
    Um, do you not know how to read? I was responding to your assertion that there was no reason to remove Saddam Hussein. I cited four justifications cited by Bush and another 23 cited by the US Congress.
    Please show me where I asserted there was no reason to remove Saddam. And for the record, you MENTIONED four and twenty three but you didn't actually give a link or supply a textual excerpt.

    Quote Originally Posted by JMak View Post
    The "everything else" being Israel feeling threatened by Iraq? You'll have to establish, first, that israel actually perceived such a threat.
    Check my most recent previous post.

    Quote Originally Posted by JMak View Post
    You're right on this. I thought it strange that the administration rarely chose to defend itself.
    Do you have any ideas why they would hold back?

    I think Cheney might have urged GWB to just do what he felt was right and then screw em. I.E. let the media think whatever they wanted to. Then, enjoy the job as much as possible.

    What I have found whenever I have looked at the WhiteHouse.gov documents is that there are a LOT of answers to be found there if you just bother to look there for them.

    What are your thoughts?

    Last edited by bhkad; 12-09-08 at 01:42 PM.

    OBL 11/24/02

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    Re: Rice regrets bad Iraq intelligence; defends war

    Quote Originally Posted by rsixing View Post
    A strategy to alienate America from the rest of the world? Mission Accomplished!
    Yeah, because pre-Iraq war the US was beloved by all, right? I love how you guys have this kumbya vision of the world that the US radically upset in early 2003...

    A strategy to embolden AQ and BL? Mission Accomplished!
    Abandoning Somalia to warlords and terrorists didn't do that, huh? Treating the bombings of the US embassies, military installations, and naval vessels as common crimes didn't embolden them, huh?

    A strategy to have thousands of Americas finest men and women killed? Mission Accomplished!
    So no decision to go to war can ever be assessed as a "strategic victory" if it involves the deaths of US military personnel?

    You're a joke.

    I guess we could have spent another decade enforcing sanctions and no-fly zones, right? Maybe if we just gave the inspectors just a little more time, Hussein would have complied, right?

    What pathetic Blame America First nonsense.

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