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Thread: US successfully tests anti-missile shield

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    Re: US successfully tests anti-missile shield

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Well known fact, eh?
    The you should have no problems showing where the plan for the NMD or the NMD in Europe is designed or intended to - or even has the capability to - protect Israel.

    I'd be particulaly interested in the operational parameters that actually allow such a thing.
    You're right, Israel is not officially included in the defense blanket. They just get access to all of the US missile defense technology and funding from our congress. The proof that US developed Missile defense systems have protected Israel is glaringly obvious. They currently use the Arrow II, mostly developed and paid for by the US. Every year part of our defense budget goes towards joint missile defense endeavors of Israel and the US.

    My point is that there is no reasonable threat to the US where these missiles would be useful, except in the case of a counterattack to US aggression. Israel is an entirely different matter. They have have a legitimate claim for the need of these missiles.

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    Re: US successfully tests anti-missile shield

    Quote Originally Posted by shiznit770 View Post
    You're right, Israel is not officially included in the defense blanket. They just get access to all of the US missile defense technology and funding from our congress. The proof that US developed Missile defense systems have protected Israel is glaringly obvious. They currently use the Arrow II, mostly developed and paid for by the US. Every year part of our defense budget goes towards joint missile defense endeavors of Israel and the US.

    My point is that there is no reasonable threat to the US where these missiles would be useful, except in the case of a counterattack to US aggression. Israel is an entirely different matter. They have have a legitimate claim for the need of these missiles.
    For the third time people: why do you think interceptor technology is limited to ICBMs?
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    Re: US successfully tests anti-missile shield

    Quote Originally Posted by shiznit770 View Post
    You're right, Israel is not officially included in the defense blanket.
    So you agree that your scenario has nothing to do with the NMD. Thanks.

    They just get access to all of the US missile defense technology and funding from our congress
    I havent heard or read anythig that supports the idea that Israel has been given access to NMD tech. Please provide a citation.

    The proof that US developed Missile defense systems have protected Israel is glaringly obvious. They currently use the Arrow II, mostly developed and paid for by the US. Every year part of our defense budget goes towards joint missile defense endeavors of Israel and the US.
    You're confused. The NMD has nothing to do with tactical area-defense missle systems like the Patriot/Arrow.

    My point is that there is no reasonable threat to the US where these missiles would be useful, except...
    ...in the cae of NK or Iran or any number of other contries developing delivery systams that can reach the US or Europe.

    ...in the case of a counterattack to US aggression.
    This position is unsupportable, as noted above.
    Last edited by Goobieman; 12-08-08 at 04:57 PM.

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    Re: US successfully tests anti-missile shield

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    So you agree that your scenario has nothing to do with the NMD. Thanks.

    I havent heard or read anythig that supports the idea that Israel has been given access to NMD tech. Please provide a citation.

    You're confused. The NMD has nothing to do with tactical area-defense missle systems like the Patriot/Arrow.
    U.S. Missile Defense Radar in Israel to Become Operational Next Month

    The X-band radar would detect and track airborne targets at greater range and with better precision than current Israeli systems, thereby improving the odds of Israelís Arrow interceptors striking incoming missile targets, Defense News reported in August. Israel is particularly concerned about Iranís missile capabilities.

    U.S. Installs Missile Defense Radar in Israel
    If this isn't evidence I think you need to specifically define what you consider related to NMD and what is not.

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    Re: US successfully tests anti-missile shield

    Quote Originally Posted by shiznit770 View Post
    U.S. Missile Defense Radar in Israel to Become Operational Next Month

    If this isn't evidence I think you need to specifically define what you consider related to NMD and what is not.
    This is evidence of something Goobie didn't disagree with, i.e., Goobie didn't disagree with your assertion that Israel receives missile defense technology and systems like Arrow.

    He is saying that MD systems like Arrow/Patriot are different in kind from a NMD system.

    Are you arguing that theatre-wide air defense systems are associated with NMD?

    I'd agree if you were saying that missile defense is a layered one with multiple systems being coordinated to provide missile defense (local/theatre system, sea-borne radar w/Block SAMs, airborne shoot-down systems, ICBM interceptors, etc). But theatre-specific systems, while probably having some application within the larger defense umbrella, really ain't the NMD. It is but a layer.

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    Re: US successfully tests anti-missile shield

    Quote Originally Posted by shiznit770 View Post
    U.S. Missile Defense Radar in Israel to Become Operational Next Month
    If this isn't evidence I think you need to specifically define what you consider related to NMD and what is not.
    This is exidence of a missile defense radar, and nothng more. It doesnt tie this radar to the NMD, nor is it evidence that we are giving Israel technology related to the NMD. X-band radars are used for several ABM systems, and so the installation of an X-band radar isnt necessarily tied in any way to the US NMD.
    U.S. Deploys Radar, Troops To Israel - Defense News

    Then, look at your source:
    ...thereby improving the odds of Israelís Arrow interceptors striking incoming missile targets...
    These aren't NMD interceptors, these are theater- and area-defense interceptors designed to stop IRBM and tactical battlefield missiles, not the ICBMs the NMD is designed to engage.
    Arrow TMD

    Nothing you've posted supprts the idea that the NMD is intended to stop a residual second strike, nor negates the claim that it is intended to do anything other than stop a limited-scale strike from some rogue nation.
    Last edited by Goobieman; 12-08-08 at 05:32 PM.

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    Re: US successfully tests anti-missile shield

    Quote Originally Posted by JMak View Post
    I'd agree if you were saying that missile defense is a layered one with multiple systems being coordinated to provide missile defense (local/theatre system, sea-borne radar w/Block SAMs, airborne shoot-down systems, ICBM interceptors, etc). But theatre-specific systems, while probably having some application within the larger defense umbrella, really ain't the NMD. It is but a layer.
    Yes. The NMD is a specific system with a specific role within the BMD umbrella.

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    Re: US successfully tests anti-missile shield

    Quote Originally Posted by JMak View Post
    This is evidence of something Goobie didn't disagree with, i.e., Goobie didn't disagree with your assertion that Israel receives missile defense technology and systems like Arrow.

    He is saying that MD systems like Arrow/Patriot are different in kind from a NMD system.

    Are you arguing that theatre-wide air defense systems are associated with NMD?

    I'd agree if you were saying that missile defense is a layered one with multiple systems being coordinated to provide missile defense (local/theatre system, sea-borne radar w/Block SAMs, airborne shoot-down systems, ICBM interceptors, etc). But theatre-specific systems, while probably having some application within the larger defense umbrella, really ain't the NMD. It is but a layer.
    I would argue that the entire program as a whole is not without merit. It is certain elements of it that are unnecessary, like providing defense in the form of interceptors and radar to other countries(Poland/Czech/Israel). These parts of the program promote political divisiveness with essentially no gain for the US.

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    Re: US successfully tests anti-missile shield

    Quote Originally Posted by shiznit770 View Post
    It is certain elements of it that are unnecessary, like providing defense in the form of interceptors and radar to other countries(Poland/Czech/Israel). These parts of the program promote political divisiveness with essentially no gain for the US.
    How dare we provide protection for our allies!! We should let them sort out their own affairs because we know that it never ends up being our problem too, mein fuhrer/comrade.
    Last edited by scourge99; 12-08-08 at 06:10 PM.
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  10. #70
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    Re: US successfully tests anti-missile shield

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    How dare we provide protection for our allies!! We should let them sort out their own affairs because we know how well that works.
    You're right, lets give Israel the best damn missile defense system money can buy. That way when they attack Iran's nuclear facilities, Iran won't be able to counter-attack! I wonder what will happen when you corner an extremist country and provoke them? Meh, whatever happens we can just blame it on Islam again, right?

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