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Thread: US successfully tests anti-missile shield

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    Re: US successfully tests anti-missile shield

    I do have to say its nice to see that the opposition to the NMD has moved away from "it will never work".

    Of course, the arguments currently in place arent much better, but at least its detractors have decided that paerticular tack doesnt get them anywhere.

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    Re: US successfully tests anti-missile shield

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    I do have to say its nice to see that the opposition to the NMD has moved away from "it will never work".

    Of course, the arguments currently in place arent much better, but at least its detractors have decided that paerticular tack doesnt get them anywhere.
    I never believed the NMD "will never work", in fact I think its been shown that it does work.

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    Re: US successfully tests anti-missile shield

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    There are many kinds of interceptors:
    Strategic/national defense, for ICBMs
    Theater/area defense, for IRBMs and tactical battlefield missiles
    Area/point defense, for smaller tactical battlefield missiles.
    Examples can be provided at your request.
    Except that the biggest money drainer is the ICBM. Many of the ones you cited were in the works and in practice long before the current missile shield plan. And they were a heck of a lot cheaper and had battlefield uses. Like a phalanx system.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: US successfully tests anti-missile shield

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Listen to their rhetoric.
    No one know what they are going to do, including them - thus, unpredictable.
    Either state having an operational nuke and a missle platform that could reach the US should cause you GREAT concern.
    lol. I noticed you deliberately ignored the rest of my post.

    Your entire argument is based on comments, many comments made during bad economies. Care to look at the statements made by the past Iranian president during the economic boom?

    You have completely failed to understand the notion of political unity within a country and how leaders make statements to maintain that.

    We do know that the primary goal of both regimes is to stay n power. Nothing they have ever done has ever risked that. Why would they use a weapon that would in turn make them into radioactive ash?

    The problem with North Korea getting a weapon isn't that they will use it. It is the proliferation as their economy is in the tank. Iran's problem is not that they will use it, it is that everyone else in the middle east will want one as a deterrent.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: US successfully tests anti-missile shield

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Except that the biggest money drainer is the ICBM.
    Even if true - So?
    You wanted to know what other kids of interceptors there were.
    You were made aware.
    Now, you're moving the goalpost?

    Many of the ones you cited were in the works and in practice long before the current missile shield plan. And they were a heck of a lot cheaper and had battlefield uses. Like a phalanx system.
    Your point?
    BTW, the Phalanx system is a gun, not a missle system.

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    Re: US successfully tests anti-missile shield

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    You are aware that there are other classes of offensive missiles which aren't ICBMs? (Like, oh, the ones targeted in the tests?) Or perhaps you're using "ICBM" to mean something that it doesn't?
    The ones in the tests are meant to represent a stage of the ICBM, not the entire ICBM. Or did you not know that?

    The other classes are already taken care of by systems that were developed a long time ago.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: US successfully tests anti-missile shield

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    lol. I noticed you deliberately ignored the rest of my post.
    I only responded to the part that was necessary to respond to.

    Your entire argument is based on comments, many comments made during bad economies. Care to look at the statements made by the past Iranian president during the economic boom?
    Given that he is not in power.... no. Irrelevant.
    So... you;re arguing that we should not take AchmedJihad at his word, that his rhetoric is just some delusional smoke screen?
    Seems to support the 'unstable' argument.

    You have completely failed to understand the notion of political unity within a country and how leaders make statements to maintain that.
    Hardly.

    We do know that the primary goal of both regimes is to stay n power. Nothing they have ever done has ever risked that. Why would they use a weapon that would in turn make them into radioactive ash?
    Because, according to the beliefs so very openly expressed, it is the right thing to do.
    You seem to think that the Jihadist is worried about his own survival or the survival of his 'people'. There are mounds of evidence to oppose this.

    The problem with North Korea getting a weapon isn't that they will use it. It is the proliferation as their economy is in the tank. Iran's problem is not that they will use it, it is that everyone else in the middle east will want one as a deterrent.
    If no one is going to use these weapons, why/how is proliferation an issue?

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    Re: US successfully tests anti-missile shield

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    I do have to say its nice to see that the opposition to the NMD has moved away from "it will never work".
    No one said it will never work. Throw enough money at it (like you guys are implicitly arguing) and it will eventually work. True the costs may top out at $500 billion, but hey, throw enough money at it and it will work! Well, it will work at least in hitting some of them (whether or not it's the one with the warhead, that's questionable). An intelligent enemy will simply use countermeasures to by pass the system. I have yet to see any of you offer an explanation to get around the Mylar balloon decoy problem. Hell, I'm the only one who had an counter counter measure, but there's a reason the US abandoned nuclear interceptors long ago.

    The issue is allocation of resources away from likely methods we'll be attacked by. If you bothered to pay any attention you would have noticed this long ago.

    Explain to me why we should spend billions on a system that does not defend us from the most likely source of attack and when the current system of MAD is functioning well.

    Furthermore, explain to me why we don't spend missile defense on securing fissile material. We could secure ALL of the fissile material on the planet for much cheaper then the missile defense. Without fissile material, there is no nuke. At best they could use a chemical or biological weapon, but we'd in turn react causing huge damage to them. MAD still functions.

    You guys are pushing for the most expensive, least applicable system rather then for the cost effective system that covers the vast majority of problems.

    That sounds like a big liberal welfare system to me.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: US successfully tests anti-missile shield

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    That sounds like a big liberal welfare system to me.
    Sure it does when caricature and misrepresent the arguments of those you disagree with.

    'Nuff said.

    Carry on.

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    Re: US successfully tests anti-missile shield

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    I only responded to the part that was necessary to respond to.
    Aka, things you don't like.

    Given that he is not in power.... no. Irrelevant.
    So... you;re arguing that we should not take AchmedJihad at his word, that his rhetoric is just some delusional smoke screen?
    So no, you have no intention of learning a damn thing about your enemy's history. That's pretty sad. No, we shouldn't take him at his word. When the economy in Iran went down the toliet, guess what he started to say? When the economy was booming in Iran, the last president had virtually no similar statements and even argued that Jews were equal citizens. Wow. Blaming an outside aggressor is the oldest trick in the book of political unity. We saw this thousands of years ago. Why people can't figure this out, well, I blame the American public education system.

    Hardly.
    lol. Says the one who doesn't even want to look at history.

    Because, according to the beliefs so very openly expressed, it is the right thing to do.
    Yet their actions since the Revolution has always sought to maintain Mullah power in Iran. Explain to me why they would instantly change that long standing policy. The whole notion that the Mullahs are incapable of reason is just laughable. People who decide projects on Cost Vs Benefit analysis can't be reasonable?

    hahahahaha. Look at what they do. Not what they say.

    You seem to think that the Jihadist is worried about his own survival or the survival of his 'people'. There are mounds of evidence to oppose this.
    You seem to think that all Jihadists are the same. Care to point out a single example where the Mullahs risked their own lives and their own power instead of sending someone else to die in their stead? You won't because it doesn't exist. Iran has a long standing policy of sending their people to die for their causes. To fight proxy wars and have others die for them. They never, ever risk their own lives or their own power. A simple study of Iran would tell you that. But you are against looking at Iran's history. You said it yourself.

    If no one is going to use these weapons, why/how is proliferation an issue?
    Incorrect. No state is going to use those weapons. That doesn't mean North Korea won't sell the plans and actual weapons to god knows who. Furthermore, proliferation to states increases risks of more weapons being developed and more highly enriched fuel being made. That can be stolen as evident by tests on our OWN facilities.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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