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Atheists take aim at Christmas

Gibberish said:
Semantics isn't the point of this thread.
Now if a Pagan group that celebrates the Winter Solstice placed the sign along with a description of the their holiday beliefs then there would be no issue here.
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Completely agree with you.
 
Gibberish said:
This is the point. Atheists don't celebrate the Winter Solstice. The Atheists message is nothing more then an attack on Christianity. They simple took a sign and stated a older celebration that Christianity took over to ease the transition from paganism to Christianity.
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Uh-huh... and? This is protected by the 1st amendment of the constitution.

Now if a Pagan group that celebrates the Winter Solstice placed the sign along with a description of the their holiday beliefs then there would be no issue here.
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The sign also says that there is no God. That seems to be an atheist belief.
 
The atheists do have a right to put their sign up, however I think there are better ways to get their message across.

The one atheist sign I saw a couple of years back during Christmas time said "Believe in yourself and others". It was to the point, and had a good message.
 
What kind of atheist celebrates Winter Solstice?
 
dclxvinoise said:
If Christians are allowed to place holiday displays on government property then all religions should be granted the same right. However, the sign comes off as incredibly arrogant and condescending. I find it ironic that a lot of anti-Christian people are just as fanatical and close-minded about other religions beliefs who dare to believe in a deity. If people want to believe in a deity or not believe in a deity that is their right. Who gives a ****?
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Atheism is the absence of religion.
We still have a Christian nation, however eroding, but the other religions can post items as well, all but Islam, a "religion" of hate...
 
What is the significance of December 25th for atheists compelling them to seek to place things symbolizing their absence of faith alongside Christian symbols like crosses?


Why don't we declare August 16th Atheist day?


Then again, there would probably Christian asshats of a similar stripe who would ruin it in the exact same manner...
 
Truth Detector said:
The military is right; you will be much happier for it and healthy. And what's better is think of all the money you are saving and NOT giving to Uncle Sam!!

;)
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It's weird. I get money from Uncle Sam for going to drill and then he immediately takes half of it back out. Why not just cut out the middleman and pay me half as much?
 
RightOfCenter said:
It's weird. I get money from Uncle Sam for going to drill and then he immediately takes half of it back out. Why not just cut out the middleman and pay me half as much?
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Obviously the WRONG people are in charge; YOU need to be the General. How long will that take you if you start now? :smoking:
 
earthworm said:
Atheism is the absence of religion.
We still have a Christian nation, however eroding, but the other religions can post items as well, all but Islam, a "religion" of hate...
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Actually Islam can as well. And no, it isn't a religion of hate anymore than Christianity is. Perhaps you should do some research on the subject.
 
I personally think the whole thing is stupid.

Christmas isn't even near Christ's alleged birthday. The historical facts regarding his birth all point to a much warmer month. Most likely somewhere around June or July. You're 6 months late! Second, the date of Christmas is shamefully stolen from the Pagans who had numerous winter holidays around the 25th. Third, Christians even BANNED the holiday numerous times throughout history both in the New and Old worlds because people were using the holiday as nothing more then a day to party and get extremely plastered. Fourth, the vast majority of rituals from presents to trees to mistletoe are all pagan. Fifth, Christmas today is effectively nothing more then a commercial holiday meant to ensure that retailers go from red to black on their fiscal year. Six, the fact that numerous non-Christians celebrate it as a day for togetherness devoid of religion shows it has effectively become a secular holiday.

Atheists need to get the facts straight and move on. This is stupid. It's a commercial holiday that was stolen from the Pagans and celebrated in many pagan ways. Sheesh.
 
I think it was a stupid move by the freedom from religion foundation.I hate this weak crap be bold do it in saudi Arabia where the real battle is.why wind up moderate allies in this way?
 
This is yet another example of the extremists of a particular position showing their ignorance, stupidity, close-mindedness, and arrogance. Like other extremists, they do not speak for the majority of those who hold similar beliefs. Extremists should be whisked away and throttled whenever possible.
 
I gotta admit I do like the second sign they have. People should be good for goodness sake. Not because some incorporeal being will allegedly reward/not punish them when they kick the can.
 
Why must we respect the christian religion on a pagan holiday ?

So what if it's become traditional in the last century ..traditions stolen from an older culture I might add.

Christianity has been a bully to atheism for the longest time and atheism for the most part has just been sucking it up. Now that's changed , the assaulted has become the aggressor and all the bully can do is scream foul.

Just because the religious want to claim the holiday seasons for their own just like they wish to claim marriage, education, and law making , doesn't mean it's theirs solely. They criticize and demonize atheists left and right without fear of retribution. Yet, if a non believer makes a preemptive strike ..... Well the responses to this thread show the response.

It shows that religion is given a mystic status most believe beyond reproach, even by those who do not believe. Unfortunately, dispelling lies means pointing out that they are lies. Expecting people not to retaliate against the recent years of "war on Christmas" propagated by the religious right is like a man dressed in heavy plate running around killing peasants at will ...suddenly confronted with someone armed with a shotgun . Yes the guy with the shot gun has overkill , but the armored knight was sure willing to fight when no one was fighting back.
 
Dogger807 said:
Why must we respect the christian religion on a pagan holiday ?

So what if it's become traditional in the last century ..traditions stolen from an older culture I might add.

Christianity has been a bully to atheism for the longest time and atheism for the most part has just been sucking it up. Now that's changed , the assaulted has become the aggressor and all the bully can do is scream foul.

Just because the religious want to claim the holiday seasons for their own just like they wish to claim marriage, education, and law making , doesn't mean it's theirs solely. They criticize and demonize atheists left and right without fear of retribution. Yet, if a non believer makes a preemptive strike ..... Well the responses to this thread show the response.

It shows that religion is given a mystic status most believe beyond reproach, even by those who do not believe. Unfortunately, dispelling lies means pointing out that they are lies. Expecting people not to retaliate against the recent years of "war on Christmas" propagated by the religious right is like a man dressed in heavy plate running around killing peasants at will ...suddenly confronted with someone armed with a shotgun . Yes the guy with the shot gun has overkill , but the armored knight was sure willing to fight when no one was fighting back.
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Two wrongs don't make a right.
 
Oh come on people!

Everyt year Jewish actors play in movies where Santa is shown as an evil dude, Christmas decorations are destroyed by thousands, the mockeries about this festivity are lots and mischievous..even in movie cartoons...and nobody -read Christians- say sh*t about them...

I do not celebrate Christmas, for me is a celebration made in the wrong month because such dude the Christ should be born -according to Luke's Gospel account- in September or in October.

Besides this account showing the months where the priest of the Jewish Temple orders were set for John the Baptists' father, and the correspondent time correlation of months of pregnancy of his mother and later of the mother of the Christ, we have the weird scenario that the celebration is the birthday of this dude the Christ but the gifts are given between the people but nothing to the owner of the birthday...sure, right..tell me when is your birthday so I will receive a gift from my son and my neighbor will receive a gift from his wife but you won't receive sh*t...because it is your birhtday:2razz:

I think that lots of religious celebrations have indeed a meaning, but that this celebration of Christmas started with a different meaning other than the birth of the Christ. For me, the atheists have made their point but still they used the wrong procedure: To show that Christmas is an invalid religuious date for the birth of the Christ, you only need basic mathematics of addition and substraction.

About religion itself: "Freedom of religion" means that religion beliefs are allowed by the Constitution, and atheists have it wrong from this side of the argument.
 
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Dogger807 said:
Why must we respect the christian religion on a pagan holiday ?
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How about because it is basic human decency?
So what if it's become traditional in the last century ..traditions stolen from an older culture I might add.
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Borrowed maybe, but stolen? that's a very harsh term, besides, most of the traditions have nothing at all to do with the actual celebration and are in fact simply symbolism of the season.

Christianity has been a bully to atheism for the longest time and atheism for the most part has just been sucking it up. Now that's changed , the assaulted has become the aggressor and all the bully can do is scream foul.
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Really, all of cristianity? All of it? I, like MOST christians do not throw my beliefs in anyone's faces or try to change their thinking, however extremist athiests have this dogged belief that anyone who believes other than that of athiesm is stupid, just like the christian bullies you speak of. If someone calls me stupid for my beliefs that tends to make me angry as beliefs are a strong thing. All christians can do is scream foul? hopefully you are right, but extremists of all kinds are prone to violence, hopefully the situation never comes to that, but screaming foul could in the worst of circumstances be the least of anyone's problems.

Just because the religious want to claim the holiday seasons for their own just like they wish to claim marriage, education, and law making , doesn't mean it's theirs solely. They criticize and demonize atheists left and right without fear of retribution. Yet, if a non believer makes a preemptive strike ..... Well the responses to this thread show the response.
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Christmas, Winter Solstice, and Channukah are religious holidays, as well as Ramadan(sp?) etc. Being angry at the religious for "claiming" a religious time is a very ridiculous position to take, since they are designated religious holidays. Next the law of this land was written as a Judeo-Christian one, that is a simple fact, I don't care who "claims" it, it is the law and that is a fact. Marriage is a civil contract under the law, however, if it is performed in a place of worship it.....follow with me......IS a religious matter. Finally, education is not religious on it's face, but the history of religion IS still history, and therefore has educational merit within it's own context, to be angry that people want their side represented in a publicly funded institution(read equally funded) shows an irrational bitterness that turns people off to the messenger(athiests, etc.) and the message. As for the pre-emptive strike, why would one be so dogged that they must harass innocent people during their time of celebration, except to be an asshole?
It shows that religion is given a mystic status most believe beyond reproach, even by those who do not believe.
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You have every right to discuss and debate, but to challenge the beliefs of those who don't agree to this extent is unforgivable, and tactless, people have been killed worldwide for less.
Unfortunately, dispelling lies means pointing out that they are lies.
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Congratulations, you have proved to be that 10-15% I talked about earlier, you cannot be so certain in your beliefs as I cannot in mine as to completely discredit the unprovable, that my friend is called dogma.
Expecting people not to retaliate against the recent years of "war on Christmas" propagated by the religious right is like a man dressed in heavy plate running around killing peasants at will ...suddenly confronted with someone armed with a shotgun . Yes the guy with the shot gun has overkill , but the armored knight was sure willing to fight when no one was fighting back.
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Excepting, for the fact, that athiest extremists started it.
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obvious Child said:
I personally think the whole thing is stupid.

Christmas isn't even near Christ's alleged birthday. The historical facts regarding his birth all point to a much warmer month. Most likely somewhere around June or July. You're 6 months late! Second, the date of Christmas is shamefully stolen from the Pagans who had numerous winter holidays around the 25th. Third, Christians even BANNED the holiday numerous times throughout history both in the New and Old worlds because people were using the holiday as nothing more then a day to party and get extremely plastered. Fourth, the vast majority of rituals from presents to trees to mistletoe are all pagan. Fifth, Christmas today is effectively nothing more then a commercial holiday meant to ensure that retailers go from red to black on their fiscal year. Six, the fact that numerous non-Christians celebrate it as a day for togetherness devoid of religion shows it has effectively become a secular holiday.

Atheists need to get the facts straight and move on. This is stupid. It's a commercial holiday that was stolen from the Pagans and celebrated in many pagan ways. Sheesh.
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The holiday was NOT stolen from pagans. The first known celebrations of a feast for Christ date to Christians in Egypt around A.D. 200. The current date of December 25 has been used since the middle of the fourth century, before Christianity became widespread in Northern EUrope. The date is traditional as it is nine months after the Annunciation to the Virgin Mary, which is celebrated on March 25.

As for the actual date of Christ's birth, that is unknown and scholars are not universally opposed to the December date. The Census took place at a time when field labor was suspended, and that could only have happened in the winter. Regardless, the date is NOT important. It is the PURPOSE of the celebration that IS important.
 
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