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Thread: Atheists take aim at Christmas

  1. #61
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    Re: Atheists take aim at Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    This outta be good.


    So it just happened to be around the time that Pagans had been celebrating their religious holidays for thousands of years? It just happened that the RCC enrishened that date and adopted the numerous pagan rituals as part of the holiday?
    You could choose just about ANY date and it would have conflicted with SOME pre-existing holiday. Did you notice that the December 25th date is exactly NINE MONTHS after the Annunciation? Didn't think so. Ever heard of Hannakuh? Next, you are going to tell me that Easter is pagan in origin too.

    If it wasn't stolen, why did it jack dozens of Pagan rituals? The accepted argument is that the RCC trying to get the hordes of Pagans after the fall of Rome to convert took the holiday along with the rituals as their own to further the conversion into Catholicism.
    Care to elucidate on the traditions that were "stolen" and explain the alleged religious significance of said traditions?

    "It's a Christian Holiday and always was never mind that we celebrate it on the day and time that Pagans had their own for thousands of years before the Israelite and we celebrate in Pagan ways!"
    WHat are we celebrating on December 25? The birth of the Son of God. The traditional date for that celebration is exactly nine months after the Annunciation to Mary. Hint - It is generally held that a woman's normal term is about nine months.

    You're going to have to do better then that.
    I could say the same of you.

    Read about what the Shepards were wearing.
    So? Average high temperature in Jerusalem in December is the upper 50s. Not cold. If it wasn't winter, why was field labor suspended?

    The Puritans banned the holiday. What does that tell you about the purpose?
    Why do I care what a bunch of bigoted, intolerant Puritans did?
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  2. #62
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    Re: Atheists take aim at Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    You could choose just about ANY date and it would have conflicted with SOME pre-existing holiday. Did you notice that the December 25th date is exactly NINE MONTHS after the Annunciation? Didn't think so. Ever heard of Hannakuh? Next, you are going to tell me that Easter is pagan in origin too.

    WHat are we celebrating on December 25? The birth of the Son of God. The traditional date for that celebration is exactly nine months after the Annunciation to Mary. Hint - It is generally held that a woman's normal term is about nine months.
    John the Baptist was actually the individual born in March, not Jesus. Biblical and historical record places Jesus's birth sometime in Fall , most likely September.

    Shepherds were in the fields watching their flocks at night at the time of Jesus' birth [Luke 2:7-8].
    As temperatures become freezing in Judea in the winter time and weather is quite harsh at times shepherds are in shelter and not out grazing their flocks in the dead of winter. It is more likely that Jesus was not born in the winter taking this fact into consideration.

    Jesus' parents came to Bethlehem to register in a Roman census [Luke 2:1-4].
    Though no census is ever recorded by Roman historians the Romans would have most likely not called for such a census during the winter, forcing thousands of people to traverse the lands in harsh and deadly weather when they could do so in the summer.

    We know Mary was in her sixth month of pregnancy when John the Baptist was born to Elizabeth and Zacharias [Luke 1:24-36].
    So if we figure out when John was born we can find the month Jesus was born in. John's father, Zacharias, was a priest serving in the Jerusalem temple during the course of Abijah [Luke 1:5] and it was during this time of temple service that Zacharias learned that his wife Elizabeth would have a child and after his service he traveled home and conceived John [Luke 1:8-13;22-24]. Historical calculations indicate this course of service corresponded to June of that year (late Sivan/early Tammuz). So if we take into account Zacharias did indeed return home right after this service then John was most likely conceived end of June/early July, so John was most likely born in March. Adding another six months, as Mary was 3 months pregnant at John's birth, Jesus would have been born in September.

    I can also quote Iranaeus (disciple of Polycarp) and Eusebius ("father of Church history") as placing Jesus's birth in the Fall. But I think you get the point.

    The fact is the Council of Nicea moved Jesus's birthday to December 25 to easy the conversion of Roman Mithraists to Christianity.
    Last edited by Gibberish; 12-07-08 at 12:13 AM.
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    Re: Atheists take aim at Christmas

    If atheists are so smart why don't they buy some time on TV
    channels ? I see all kinds of Christian stuff on TV, but never
    any atheist stuff, or philosophy either.

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    Re: Atheists take aim at Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by lawshume View Post
    If atheists are so smart why don't they buy some time on TV
    channels ? I see all kinds of Christian stuff on TV, but never
    any atheist stuff, or philosophy either.
    Because no one would watch a blank screen?

    Seriously though, given our traditions atheism takes dedication to follow. Its not something that appeals to the masses. People don't want to believe there is no "magic".
    "Gold gets dug out of the ground in Africa, or someplace. Then we melt it down, dig another hole, bury it again and pay people to stand around guarding it. It has no utility. Anyone watching from Mars would be scratching their head."
    - Warren Buffett

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    Re: Atheists take aim at Christmas

    This thread reads something like....

    ....a muscle bound guy crying because a little skinny kid kicked him in the knee after being bullied for centuries. Then the muscle bound guy cries about atheism being a religion even though there is no dogma, house of worship or clergy. Unlike every other religion out there does in one form or another. Then the muscle bound guy tries to make the little guy bad for not taking **** anymore and holding up his opinion proudly for everybody to see.

    This all led to me realize that....

    .....baptists and their unapologetic talking heads in this country have for the most part no trouble with blaming 9/11 and other completely unpredictable **** on gays and atheists. Catholics have no problem with religion interfering in peoples lives as far as reproductive choice goes, religion sexuality. The LDS have no problem telling gays they can't marry whomever they love just like everybody else. Muslims in this country expect people to make time out of their schedule to accommodate prayer times. These groups have absolutely NO PROBLEM sticking their beliefs into the lives of others and hammering their **** over airwaves, tv channels, internet pop-up ads. HOWEVER. Let ONE ****ing atheist group make up a mean sign and all the sudden Atheists are the bad guys.

    I swear on Photoshop CS4 that next time I drive by a billboard in the middle of the road saying 'Have you found him yet?' I'm going to file a lawsuit and get filthy rich by making a fuss about how hurt I am I could have find Jesus by going on a website but was never told. Seriously I am.


    Whatever. I hope whomever stole the sign gets caught and sent to jail. Ha.
    Last edited by Hatuey; 12-07-08 at 12:41 AM.
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    Re: Atheists take aim at Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by Gibberish View Post
    Because no one would watch a blank screen
    Ha! That's almost sig-worthy. Pretty clever.

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    Re: Atheists take aim at Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    This thread reads something like....

    ....a muscle bound guy crying because a little skinny kid kicked him in the knee after being bullied for centuries. Then the muscle bound guy cries about atheism being a religion even though there is no dogma, house of worship or clergy. Unlike every other religion out there does in one form or another. Then the muscle bound guy tries to make the little guy bad for not taking **** anymore and holding up his opinion proudly for everybody to see.

    This all led to me realize that....

    .....baptists and their unapologetic talking heads in this country have for the most part no trouble with blaming 9/11 and other completely unpredictable **** on gays and atheists. Catholics have no problem with religion interfering in peoples lives as far as reproductive choice goes, religion sexuality. The LDS have no problem telling gays they can't marry whomever they love just like everybody else. Muslims in this country expect people to make time out of their schedule to accommodate prayer times. These groups have absolutely NO PROBLEM sticking their beliefs into the lives of others and hammering their **** over airwaves, tv channels, internet pop-up ads. HOWEVER. Let ONE ****ing atheist group make up a mean sign and all the sudden Atheists are the bad guys.

    I swear on Photoshop CS4 that next time I drive by a billboard in the middle of the road saying 'Have you found him yet?' I'm going to file a lawsuit and get filthy rich by making a fuss about how hurt I am I could have find Jesus by going on a website but was never told. Seriously I am.


    Whatever. I hope whomever stole the sign gets caught and sent to jail. Ha.
    Excellent analysis in the beginning but what a bunch of stupid conclusions at the end

    The spread of religion as a belief is protected by the Constitution, I have no idea why atheists are so ignorant to reject what the Constitution protects as if religion is something imposed today, maybe it was in the past...

    On the other hand, some religious guys don't know where to stop and they really piss off others with their insistence to preach where they are not welcomed at all.

    The same bible teaches clearly that if you are a religious dude, and you go to a town and the people of this town reject your religion, you must go somewhere else, simple as that. But, we are witness how many religious fanatics still risking their lives by visiting countries which reject their religion, and later when they are killed or tortured by their preaching they become "martyrs" by the leaders of their religious denomination.

    Both sides must stop, the religious dudes who insist to preach their religious beliefs where they are not welcome, instead of doing good they are causing reactions of hate against them, and their god -if god exists- must be preparing a punishment instead of a reward to these religious fanatics.

    Atheists must be smart enough to fight religion offering a better alternative, not so as acting like low class people.

    Atheists against Christmas must find the way to spread the several facts which show that December 25th is not the real -an neither a valid symbolic- birth of the Christ, this can be done by TV and radio broadcast, books and similar offered for free to the people, and doing so the people will be educated instead of being a witness of silly attacks here and there. To find a key politician who supports them or creating music explaining it is also a way to hit the attraction of the people.

    But, beware, the last movie having a Christ preaching that being a foggy is ok...that is too much...such mother f*ckers actors are going too far...they should be arrested by spreading tendencies (read behaviours: homosexuality is a choice) that go against the integrity of the human mind and body.

    People must be informed that being an atheist is not a synonymous of beign in favor of homosexuality or any other similar crap around. Being an atheist is simply not to believe that a god exists and that things happen by circumstances of nature.

  8. #68
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    Re: Atheists take aim at Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by conquer View Post
    Excellent analysis in the beginning but what a bunch of stupid conclusions at the end
    Coming from somebody who is acknowledged on the forum as being an all around weirdo. I'll take that as a compliment.

    The spread of religion as a belief is protected by the Constitution, I have no idea why atheists are so ignorant to reject what the Constitution protects as if religion is something imposed today, maybe it was in the past...
    Who said it wasn't? Strawman acknowledged and ignored.

    On the other hand, some religious guys don't know where to stop and they really piss off others with their insistence to preach where they are not welcomed at all.
    Agreed.

    The same bible teaches clearly that if you are a religious dude, and you go to a town and the people of this town reject your religion, you must go somewhere else, simple as that. But, we are witness how many religious fanatics still risking their lives by visiting countries which reject their religion, and later when they are killed or tortured by their preaching they become "martyrs" by the leaders of their religious denomination.
    Uh huh and?

    Both sides must stop, the religious dudes who insist to preach their religious beliefs where they are not welcome, instead of doing good they are causing reactions of hate against them, and their god -if god exists- must be preparing a punishment instead of a reward to these religious fanatics.

    Atheists must be smart enough to fight religion offering a better alternative, not so as acting like low class people.
    What is low class about saying that it's silly to be religious? Isn't that what the religious do? State their opinion. Please stop. You're annoying me already. I've seen religious people here justifying the comments of people like Jerry Falwell under the pretense of 'well it's freedom of speech'. Same goes for religion is full of ****. it might be empty of class but what does class matter in the world of today?

    Atheists against Christmas must find the way to spread the several facts which show that December 25th is not the real -an neither a valid symbolic- birth of the Christ, this can be done by TV and radio broadcast, books and similar offered for free to the people, and doing so the people will be educated instead of being a witness of silly attacks here and there. To find a key politician who supports them or creating music explaining it is also a way to hit the attraction of the people.
    Atheists for the most part don't care. I'm laughing at the outrage shown by the mean atheists who had the audacity to bring out ONE sign but not at all the other crazy **** the religious do on a day to day basis.

    But, beware, the last movie having a Christ preaching that being a foggy is ok...that is too much...such mother f*ckers actors are going too far...they should be arrested by spreading tendencies (read behaviours: homosexuality is a choice) that go against the integrity of the human mind and body.
    What?

    People must be informed that being an atheist is not a synonymous of beign in favor of homosexuality or any other similar crap around.
    I don't know. Most people against homosexuality tend to be religious while those supporting gay rights tend to be atheists. It seems more of a general rule.

    Being an atheist is simply not to believe that a god exists and that things happen by circumstances of nature.
    What?
    Last edited by Hatuey; 12-07-08 at 01:31 AM.
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  9. #69
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    Re: Atheists take aim at Christmas

    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    This thread reads something like....

    ....a muscle bound guy crying because a little skinny kid kicked him in the knee after being bullied for centuries. Then the muscle bound guy cries about atheism being a religion even though there is no dogma, house of worship or clergy. Unlike every other religion out there does in one form or another. Then the muscle bound guy tries to make the little guy bad for not taking **** anymore and holding up his opinion proudly for everybody to see.
    From Websters online: Main Entry: dog·ma
    Pronunciation: \ˈdȯg-mə, ˈdäg-\
    Function: noun
    Inflected Form(s): plural dogmas also dog·ma·ta \-mə-tə\
    Etymology: Latin dogmat-, dogma, from Greek, from dokein to seem — more at decent
    Date: 1638
    1 a: something held as an established opinion ; especially : a definite authoritative tenet b: a code of such tenets <pedagogical dogma> c: a point of view or tenet put forth as authoritative without adequate grounds2: a doctrine or body of doctrines concerning faith or morals formally stated and authoritatively proclaimed by a church.
    Here's the link dogma - Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary Telling people "there is no god" without a scientific law stating such just on "compelling scientific theory" is dogma under this definition. Athiesm isn't a religion per se as any honest intellectual would state, but I like many christians assert it is a belief, which is absolutely the case, belief in nothing is still belief, correct? Also, Darwinism does have an "authority" that is the theory of Darwin and the logical conclusion that the theory makes the belief so, while it isn't a pure example of religion, semantics could argue so with enough of a logical stretch.



    .....baptists and their unapologetic talking heads in this country have for the most part no trouble with blaming 9/11 and other completely unpredictable **** on gays and atheists.
    Be careful, it isn't all Baptists that do this, in fact, it is the minority of that religion, the most fanatical that make the above claims.
    Catholics have no problem with religion interfering in peoples lives as far as reproductive choice goes, religion sexuality.
    Again, depends on the person and congregation, I personally don't care either way what one does with their lives as long as they don't interfere with mine.
    The LDS have no problem telling gays they can't marry whomever they love just like everybody else. Muslims in this country expect people to make time out of their schedule to accommodate prayer times.
    Haven't talked to enough people in those faiths to really comment on this one.
    These groups have absolutely NO PROBLEM sticking their beliefs into the lives of others and hammering their **** over airwaves, tv channels, internet pop-up ads. HOWEVER. Let ONE ****ing atheist group make up a mean sign and all the sudden Atheists are the bad guys.
    It was the spirit of the sign, which was tasteless and an obvious attack, I have no sympathy for the perpetrators
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  10. #70
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    Re: Atheists take aim at Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by Gibberish View Post
    Do you think the atheists went to far with the sign? Should they not be able to place a sign at all?
    Oh, nice.

    "If they disagree with Christians, should they be allowed to spread their message?"
    Cet Asshat est mechant; on l'attaque, il se defende.

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