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Thread: Atheists take aim at Christmas

  1. #561
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    Re: Atheists take aim at Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    It is not logicly posable to corectly interpret congress creating a day for prayer and acknolegment of God as a seculer act.
    I'm not saying that people in positions of power within the government have remained secular, but I think that our founding fathers overall intended this to be a secular country. If not, why do we have freedom of religion? It seems to me like that's a pretty secular idea.

    However, you clim that there is a liberal comentator who does claim that creating a day for prayer and acknolegment of God is a seculer act. Please give a link to this comentator, or supply an argument of the same yourself.
    No, I didn't make that claim at all.

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    Re: Atheists take aim at Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by Gibberish View Post
    It is fascinating. I can also name all the major Greek Gods and recite the stories of a number of constellations.

    Religion is the foundation of many things and has much power of men as a whole. Who wouldn't find that fascinating?
    Sure, you went to that much trouble just for this thread. Hahahahahah.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
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    Re: Atheists take aim at Christmas

    The purpose of atheism is to rid the world of religion.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: Atheists take aim at Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    The purpose of atheism is to rid the world of religion.
    That's a pretty absurd claim. I'm sure there are some atheists who feel that way, but atheism as a whole? That's a pretty bold statement. Do you have anything to back it up?

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    Re: Atheists take aim at Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    The purpose of atheism is to rid the world of religion.
    Do you even know any atheists? And I don't mean on the internet.

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    Re: Atheists take aim at Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    The purpose of atheism is to rid the world of religion.
    No, that's anti-theism. That's different from atheism.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    Re: Atheists take aim at Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    No, that's anti-theism. That's different from atheism.
    I didn't know that, thought it was just the outermost extreme of Atheism that practiced the attempt at eliminating religion, had never heard of anti-theism before. I have heard however that many of the socialist and communist movements of the 1900's practiced this anti-theism because they learned that if a populace doesn't believe in god overall they tend to be more easily controlled and more prone to fear and dependence of government.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

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    Re: Atheists take aim at Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by dclxvinoise View Post
    I'm not saying that people in positions of power within the government have remained secular, but I think that our founding fathers overall intended this to be a secular country. If not, why do we have freedom of religion? It seems to me like that's a pretty secular idea.
    Err, regarding the act to create a day of prayer and thanksgiving for the favors of the almighty God....the founding fathers did that right after making the 1st amendment. Please check my source again.

    The 1st amendment prevents a national religion or municipal church, nothing more. Symbols on building, prayer in congres and federaly reconised (as oposed to federaly established) holy-days are all ligit.
    Last edited by Jerry; 12-16-08 at 02:14 PM.

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    Re: Atheists take aim at Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    I didn't know that, thought it was just the outermost extreme of Atheism that practiced the attempt at eliminating religion, had never heard of anti-theism before. I have heard however that many of the socialist and communist movements of the 1900's practiced this anti-theism because they learned that if a populace doesn't believe in god overall they tend to be more easily controlled and more prone to fear and dependence of government.
    Anything can be taken to its extreme, and I guess you can say that anti-theism is the extreme side of atheism. But there are very few similarities between atheism and anti-theism. The communists practiced anti-theism to the utmost extreme since in communism there isn't supposed to be anything which can rival the State, and that includes gods. So they worked hard to stamp it out, there is nothing which can hold sovereignty over the State. Atheism is a rejection of the existence of gods, nothing more and nothing less. There's nothing in it which states anything about destroying religion and many many many atheists don't care enough to want to "stamp out" religion. People's beliefs are fine, and you can express them as you see fit; just don't make any religious laws or subject me through the government to practice.

    There's of course a side of atheism which are jerks. Every group has it, you can't get around it. Unfortunately for all of us, it's the jerks in all our groups whom tend to be the loudest and garner the greatest amount of press. These people tend to be more aligned with the anti-theism route (though they stop short of calling for death) than pure atheism. They have a political or personal goal for which they would like to see the end of religion. I would put Dawkins in this category. I've read the God Delusion, and there are things in there that I really agree with. But I think he overstates things when he starts claiming religion as the root of all evil and that we should move away from it. He's not what I would call militant anti-theist; but he definitely has an agenda in which he wishes to scape goat religion.

    I never understood how atheists can blame religion for anything. After all our base premise is that there are no gods and hence there can not be any actual influence over mankind by gods. That which does not exist can not influence. Thus the ultimate conclusion must be that it's all man's fault for we are the one that made the choices. No gods can choose for us, they don't exist to choose. And that's why I don't blame religion for anything in reality. Most religion at the core is rather peaceful anyway, it's a twisting of the religion and abuse of its principles used by the aristocracy to excuse war. War is almost always fought for land, money, or power; religion has and still is abused and twisted to make it seem as if it is for a higher cause. But that is the choice and will of man, not gods. Ultimately all the evil and all the good on this planet is caused by humans.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  10. #570
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    Re: Atheists take aim at Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Err, regarding the act to create a day of prayer and thanksgiving for the favors of the almighty God....the founding fathers did that right after making the 1st amendment. Please check my source again.
    So what? It still doesn't change the fact that we have freedom of religion and that the government isn't supposed to favor one over another. I'd say that's pretty secular.
    The 1st amendment prevents a national religion or municipal church, nothing more. Symbols on building, prayer in congres and federaly reconised (as oposed to federaly established) holy-days are all ligit.
    Yes it does, and I would call that a very secular idea.

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