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Thread: Atheists take aim at Christmas

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    Re: Atheists take aim at Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by Slippery Slope View Post
    Oh OK, I see that when the onus is on you ideology seems fine but when used against you, you demand quotation. OK then instead I'll simply say, Show me where it is written that the basis of our laws are Judeo-xian.
    Shamless plug!!

    RandomHouse.ca | Books | The 10 Big Lies About America by Michael Medved
    Myth: The Founders intended a secular, not Christian, nation.

    Fact: Even after ratifying the Constitution, fully half the state governments endorsed specific Chris*tian denominations. And just a day after approving the First Amendment, forbidding the establishment of religion, Congress called for a national “day of public thanksgiving and prayer” to acknowledge “the many signal favors of Almighty God.”
    YouTube - Medved talks 10 Big Lies About America
    Last edited by Jerry; 12-15-08 at 06:43 PM.

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    Re: Atheists take aim at Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by Slippery Slope View Post
    I never said there was no xian influence. You seem to be implying that xians cannot govern in a secular manner. I don't believe this to be true.
    You really need to let go of preconceived notions and assumptions.

    I never said anything about Christians being able to govern one way or the other. Never even implied such a thing.

    I said Christians are a major part of the history/politics of this nation and still are. So they influence the government, thats it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slippery Slope View Post
    This has been argued endlessly and seems to be an open debate only among xians who want favoritism for their religion, which they get anyway.
    Please point out this "favoritism" I for one would like to know how I missed out on it.

    All religions in this country get the same treatment under the law.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slippery Slope View Post
    If we are to be strict Constitutionalists then there needs to be a lot of change, the first should be the dissolution of our military. But I digress.
    I would be considered a Jeffersonian Constitutionalist, and even I think that is a foolish libertarian ideal in this day and age. But that as you pointed out is another debate all together.

    Edit: Not that libertarians are foolish mind you. I just consider some of the things they want unrealistic.
    Last edited by Black Dog; 12-15-08 at 06:44 PM.

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    Re: Atheists take aim at Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    If I'm not going to put any stock in what a liberal political commentator says I'm certainly not going to put any in what a conservative political commentator says. The problem with a lot of the arguments that he presents in the video you posted is that he takes these positions and turns them into absolutes. Did we as a nation make all of our money from enslaving Africans? No, but we made some of it from that. Did we commit genocide against Native Americans? No, but we killed a lot of them for the purpose of expanding Westward and claim their land for our own. And as for his comments about how this is the greatest nation in the world. It's typical nationalist nonsense. I'm not anti-patriotic. I love this country because of the freedoms that I am allowed. But do I think that this is the greatest nation in the world? No, I don't. I think that's an incredibly arrogant statement to make. I've never traveled outside of our national borders so how the hell do I know if this is the greatest nation?
    Last edited by Dr_Patrick; 12-15-08 at 06:48 PM.

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    Re: Atheists take aim at Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by dclxvinoise View Post
    If I'm not going to put any stock in what a liberal political commentator says I'm certainly not going to put any in what a conservative political commentator says.
    The facts support his position, not yours, and there is no error in being biased in favor of the truth.

    America was not founded as or intended to be seculer; it was meant to be a Christian nation. This in no respect implies or mandates a theocracy nore the exclusion of other religions from the populace.
    Last edited by Jerry; 12-15-08 at 06:54 PM.

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    Re: Atheists take aim at Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    The facts support his position, not yours, and there is no error in being biased in favor of the truth.

    America was not founded as or intended to be seculer; it was meant to be a Christian nation, and that in no respect implies or mandates a theocracy.
    I hear people get into this argument time and time again and it always turns into a war of Thomas Jefferson quotes back and forth. I'd say the fact that we have freedom of religion in this country and that the government doesn't favor one over the other shows that we are pretty secular. If this was in fact a crystal clear issue there would be no debate, but people have different interpretations of what our founding fathers meant and both arguments have their own merit. Just because a conservative political commentator writes a book stating that his own interpretation of it is fact doesn't mean that it is. I guarantee that there is a liberal commentator who would state the contrary and would state it as fact as well. And you can get into the whole argument of "well, my guy is right," but you are really only stating so because you are also a conservative.

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    Re: Atheists take aim at Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by dclxvinoise View Post
    I hear people get into this argument time and time again and it always turns into a war of Thomas Jefferson quotes back and forth. I'd say the fact that we have freedom of religion in this country and that the government doesn't favor one over the other shows that we are pretty secular. If this was in fact a crystal clear issue there would be no debate, but people have different interpretations of what our founding fathers meant and both arguments have their own merit. Just because a conservative political commentator writes a book stating that his own interpretation of it is fact doesn't mean that it is. I guarantee that there is a liberal commentator who would state the contrary and would state it as fact as well. And you can get into the whole argument of "well, my guy is right," but you are really only stating so because you are also a conservative.
    It is not logicly posable to corectly interpret congress creating a day for prayer and acknolegment of God as a seculer act.

    However, you clim that there is a liberal comentator who does claim that creating a day for prayer and acknolegment of God is a seculer act.

    Please give a link to this comentator, or supply an argument of the same yourself.

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    Re: Atheists take aim at Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by Slippery Slope View Post
    Could you please link to those statements or PM me with the thread? Thanks.
    It is in this thread.
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    Re: Atheists take aim at Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by Slippery Slope View Post
    Wait, you're not trying to use the bible as evidence of something in the bible, are you?
    I am using the Bible to show that there is Scriptural evidence for the December 25th date to counter those who say it was solely chosen to convert pagans.
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    Re: Atheists take aim at Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by Slippery Slope View Post
    Now would the "Put up or shut up" comment be inciting acrimony and unnecessary?
    Not when I have repeatedly referred to actual evidence justifying the Dec. 25th date and all the pagan origin supporters can come up with is a debate that was held centuries ago and so-called pagan symbols, all of which entered the Christmas celebration centuries AFTER the establishment of the Dec. 25th date.
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    Re: Atheists take aim at Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Doesn't matter, his facts are not conclusive, hence it amounts to fervent belief.
    ...and yet he would have facts behind his argument. This would seem to make his argument stronger than that of the creationist.
    "An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it." - Gandhi

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