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Thread: Atheists take aim at Christmas

  1. #521
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    Re: Atheists take aim at Christmas

    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by Slippery Slope View Post
    In your opinion. TPM is exactly about offending 1 or 1 million. Quantity is irrelevant. In my opinion...
    No, it was the Supreme Court's opinion. 1 person or 1 million only counts as far as what a reasonable person would react to with violence, only an extremist would get pissy about a manger.


    But not everyone celebrates the holiday as a religious celebration. This is why the White House lights a xmass tree every year instead of a manger.
    Not everybody does.....does not equate to prohibited OR offensive.


    In your opinion.
    What else would you describe it as, it was condescending, insulting, rude, and placed in a disrespectful manner.

    Again you offer nothing but your opinion. Some xians find the sign offensive, I find the nativity offensive. The sign didn't seem to be directly in front of the nativity.
    But a reasonable person wouldn't find the nativity offensive, whereas a moderate Atheist or other such reasonable person might find offense with the sign.


    I haven't seen any people of other religious faiths complaining so your assertion is incorrect.
    You need a dictionary, I said could be, and many of the standards provided in Supreme Court cases already demonstrate the principle. I didn't say "people of other faiths got offended" I said "people of other faiths COULD be offended".


    You can try to insult me if you like but I am not "butt hurt" by any of this other than the incredulous nonsense that xians continually hoist on all of us which we are told to either accept or move along. I wonder if I can find "condescending" elsewhere in your arguments.
    Sounds like you're pretty bitter to me.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: Atheists take aim at Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by Slippery Slope View Post
    You're right, I was typing as if I were speaking to someone. I'll refrain from such politeness.

    The fact is that our government was established with equality and freedom for all. Jefferson was quite clear on the desire for there to be a separation of church and state so that neither would infringe on the rights of the other AND so that government would not favor a particular group over another. This makes our government secular as was intended. I can provide the words of Jefferson and his peers but I cannot force you to accept the ideology so you may trot out whatever argument against THEIR words as you deem necessary to convince yourself that this is a xian nation founded on xian principles and should therefore favor xianity in whatever matter or manner.
    WOW! Way to completely misrepresent my stance and miss the point. Bravo!
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

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    Re: Atheists take aim at Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Then you mite want to read the comments that lead up to it so you understand it in context. Rather than make improper assumptions or put words into my mouth when you know relatively little about me or my understanding of the issue.
    I have read the entire thread including what led up to your comment and then I quoted that comment and used it to make a counter argument in a particular style. Was I mistaken on what the meaning of your comment was?

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    Re: Atheists take aim at Christmas

    [QUOTE=Slippery Slope;1057849516]
    Jefferson was quite clear on the desire for there to be a separation of church and state so that neither would infringe on the rights of the other AND so that government would not favor a particular group over another.
    Provide that quote that Jefferson stated there shall be no religious expression in public less it be considered endorsement.
    This makes our government secular as was intended.
    Don't be obtuse, the basis of our laws is Judeo-Christian.
    I can provide the words of Jefferson and his peers but I cannot force you to accept the ideology so you may trot out whatever argument against THEIR words as you deem necessary to convince yourself that this is a xian nation founded on xian principles and should therefore favor xianity in whatever matter or manner.
    Your side has constantly misrepresented Jefferson over the years, but please, show me where he said prayer in government and religious symbols amount to endorsement.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: Atheists take aim at Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by Slippery Slope View Post
    You're right, I was typing as if I were speaking to someone. I'll refrain from such politeness.

    The fact is that our government was established with equality and freedom for all. Jefferson was quite clear on the desire for there to be a separation of church and state so that neither would infringe on the rights of the other AND so that government would not favor a particular group over another.
    OK

    Quote Originally Posted by Slippery Slope View Post
    This makes our government secular as was intended. I can provide the words of Jefferson and his peers but I cannot force you to accept the ideology so you may trot out whatever argument against THEIR words as you deem necessary to convince yourself that this is a xian nation founded on xian principles and should therefore favor xianity in whatever matter or manner.
    This is a secular nation but that makes it no less a nation influenced by the majority who were and are Christian. The only way for the government to be uninfluenced by Christianity would be to take away the voting privilege from Christians, and not allowing them to run for public office.

    The fact is he is absolutely correct in that freedom of religion is guaranteed by the First Amendment and freedom from religion is not.

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    Re: Atheists take aim at Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by Slippery Slope View Post
    I have read the entire thread including what led up to your comment and then I quoted that comment and used it to make a counter argument in a particular style. Was I mistaken on what the meaning of your comment was?
    Absolutly.

    If we cannot trust something as benign as an encyclopedia, then why should we trust anything?

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    Re: Atheists take aim at Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    No, it was the Supreme Court's opinion. 1 person or 1 million only counts as far as what a reasonable person would react to with violence,
    At least we agree on that point.

    only an extremist would get pissy about a manger
    In your opinion. Sounds like you're pretty bitter to me.

    Not everybody does.....does not equate to prohibited OR offensive.
    I never claimed that it does. Simply saying that religious symbols are used for communal celebration on holidays doesn't make it right or necessary to have those symbols on public property.

    What else would you describe it as, it was condescending, insulting, rude, and placed in a disrespectful manner.
    In your opinion. In my opinion placing the nativity on tax payer property, knowing that not all tax payers are xian, is condescending, insulting, rude, and placed in a disrespectful manner.

    But a reasonable person wouldn't find the nativity offensive, whereas a moderate Atheist or other such reasonable person might find offense with the sign.
    I am a reasonable person. Making an appeal to popularity is a fallacy. Not to mention that your statement could also be construed as an ad hominem.

    You need a dictionary, I said could be, and many of the standards provided in Supreme Court cases already demonstrate the principle. I didn't say "people of other faiths got offended" I said "people of other faiths COULD be offended".
    I have one. And a thesaurus and a bible and a lot of other books. Now you're just being obtuse. I'll play along. Right, anyone could be offended by anything. Are we done with that game now?

    Sounds like you're pretty bitter to me.
    Should I say -no YOU sound bitter to me... oh wait, too late.

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    Re: Atheists take aim at Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    WOW! Way to completely misrepresent my stance and miss the point. Bravo!
    I don't think it misrepresents your stance at all. Looking back at the content of the thread, your stance is pretty clear.

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    Re: Atheists take aim at Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Provide that quote that Jefferson stated there shall be no religious expression in public less it be considered endorsement. Don't be obtuse, the basis of our laws is Judeo-Christian. Your side has constantly misrepresented Jefferson over the years, but please, show me where he said prayer in government and religious symbols amount to endorsement.
    Oh OK, I see that when the onus is on you ideology seems fine but when used against you, you demand quotation. OK then instead I'll simply say, Show me where it is written that the basis of our laws are Judeo-xian.

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    Re: Atheists take aim at Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    This is a secular nation but that makes it no less a nation influenced by the majority who were and are Christian. The only way for the government to be uninfluenced by Christianity would be to take away the voting privilege from Christians, and not allowing them to run for public office.
    I never said there was no xian influence. You seem to be implying that xians cannot govern in a secular manner. I don't believe this to be true.

    The fact is he is absolutely correct in that freedom of religion is guaranteed by the First Amendment and freedom from religion is not.
    This has been argued endlessly and seems to be an open debate only among xians who want favoritism for their religion, which they get anyway. If we are to be strict Constitutionalists then there needs to be a lot of change, the first should be the dissolution of our military. But I digress.

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