[QUOTE=LaMidRighter;1057849328]You go from -I'm not one of "them", I'm just arguing a point, to "you are the furthest things from our minds,""You feel" is not a compelling reason, the fact is you have a freedom OF not FROM religion. No one who is reasonable feels offended by someone else's expression of belief, we are talking about a direct attack within the context of this story. I don't find saying "there is no god" to be inflamatory, but the Time, Place, and Manner of this particular sign in this particular news story is offensive.
In order for this to be an irony, I would have to be of the mindset that I am absolutely right that there is a god and you would have to be absolutely wrong, I do believe there is a god but can entertain others ideals as well, I am not the one telling Atheists to stop talking about their beliefs, I am the one, along with most moderate Christians, Atheists, and other faiths saying not to do it next to an expression of someone else's religion. I am also NOT the one saying no municipality should be able to express their majority beliefs on public property, regardless of my own worldview. In other words, if these Atheists feel so challenged that they must suppress others expressions of faith, why? Other than a less than solid belief.
You got one thing right, it was placed on public property, what part of that makes the Atheists placing a sign in it's direct area okay?
You make a lot of assumptions, first, I am a Catholic, but not a devout, I haven't been inside a church in years, since the last wedding I attended. Second, I don't take anyone's free and protected expression being attacked or infringed, which is why I am on the Christian's side here, not because I am affiliated with said beliefs, third, I am not advocating, as I have already stated, majority rule, however, you are taking this victimized minority stance, MOST people of various faiths are NOT offended by others expression, so sorry if YOU INDIVIDUALLY are.
You would see it that way, and trust me, you and others like you are the furthest things from our minds, until someone pulls stupid **** like we are seeing now, or the prayer bans in school, etc. Don't attack us and you won't hear anything from us, keep these attitudes up though, and it will eventually get ugly. Our attitude huh? Have you ever considered that whining and asserting rights you don't have get irritating and bring this to you.
This tells me that you are not truthful OR that you make the same mistake most of us make in these debates; we use the words us and them in debate and without fail one of the debaters says "but I'm not one of them". Which is it?
The fact is that our government was established with equality and freedom for all. Jefferson was quite clear on the desire for there to be a separation of church and state so that neither would infringe on the rights of the other AND so that government would not favor a particular group over another. This makes our government secular as was intended. I can provide the words of Jefferson and his peers but I cannot force you to accept the ideology so you may trot out whatever argument against THEIR words as you deem necessary to convince yourself that this is a xian nation founded on xian principles and should therefore favor xianity in whatever matter or manner.
So, who are you talking to?
Be more clear. I am not sure what you are asking.Now, you made it fairly clear that you think you are not one of the extremists and you want us to believe you have the live and let live attitude. Do you feel the same way about the majority of muslims that do not stand up against the extremists in their religion or does providing the foundation for extremism only apply to other religions?
And by the way, in the post of mine that you quoted. You seem to be behaving exactly like one of the extreme atheists that I describe. You are lumping all those who believe in GOD in one group, and attacking them all.
Last edited by CaptainCourtesy; 12-15-08 at 03:55 PM.
"Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run
Mace Windu: Then our worst fears have been realized. We must move quickly if the Jedi Order is to survive.
But not everyone celebrates the holiday as a religious celebration. This is why the White House lights a xmass tree every year instead of a manger.Religious symbols at holiday times are done for communal celebration, if YOU are personally offended by that it's your problem.
In your opinion.The sign in question done by the Atheists was done specifically to attack.
Again you offer nothing but your opinion. Some xians find the sign offensive, I find the nativity offensive. The sign didn't seem to be directly in front of the nativity.Time:Christian Holiday, Place: Public Square, Manner: Condescending and directly in front of a Christian symbol.
I haven't seen any people of other religious faiths complaining so your assertion is incorrect.Any reasonable person of multiple faiths could be offended by that behavior.
You can try to insult me if you like but I am not "butt hurt" by any of this other than the incredulous nonsense that xians continually hoist on all of us which we are told to either accept or move along. I wonder if I can find "condescending" elsewhere in your arguments.You are trying to argue that Time:Christian Holiday, Place: Public Square, Manner: Reverential toward said Christian holiday offends YOU so it is an attack, get over yourself, most reasonable people would either participate or ignore, YOU however and that 5% I have talked about earlier in this thread have decided to become butt hurt over it.
Last edited by Slippery Slope; 12-15-08 at 03:54 PM.
I don't think I can be more clear on that subject.Be more clear. I am not sure what you are asking.
If lumping together all those who believe in an a deity makes me an extremist then either you don't understand the term or are using it incorrectly.And by the way, in the post of mine that you quoted. You seem to be behaving exactly like one of the extreme atheists that I describe. You are lumping all those who believe in GOD in one group, and attacking them all.
Last edited by Slippery Slope; 12-15-08 at 04:36 PM.
Or you could prove me wrong.