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Thread: Atheists take aim at Christmas

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    Re: Atheists take aim at Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    So, any holiday held in December is done for the purpose of converting pagans?

    Is Hanukkah similarly linked to the Winter Solstice? Next, you are going to try to convince me that the Christian observance of the Paschal Triduum/Easter is somehow a pagan holiday as well.

    Any other evidence? This seems pretty flimsy to me, especially given the Scriptural support for the December date I gave earlier.
    Wait, you're not trying to use the bible as evidence of something in the bible, are you?

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    Re: Atheists take aim at Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Any EVIDENCE rather than your supposition that this was the purpose of the Dec. 25 date? I have already shared the Scriptural backing for it. Put up or shut up!
    Now would the "Put up or shut up" comment be inciting acrimony and unnecessary?

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    Re: Atheists take aim at Christmas

    [QUOTE=Reverend_Hellh0und;1057849309][QUOTE=Slippery Slope;1057849308]
    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post




    I thought Athiests did not believe in evil?
    Obviously you thought wrong. Since when has the concept of good or evil been the sole property of religion?

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    Re: Atheists take aim at Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by EgoffTib View Post
    Well, the militant atheist would argue that his conclusions and beliefs had come from facts, therefore his beliefs are more sound.
    Doesn't matter, his facts are not conclusive, hence it amounts to fervent belief.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: Atheists take aim at Christmas

    [QUOTE=LaMidRighter;1057849328]
    "You feel" is not a compelling reason, the fact is you have a freedom OF not FROM religion. No one who is reasonable feels offended by someone else's expression of belief, we are talking about a direct attack within the context of this story. I don't find saying "there is no god" to be inflamatory, but the Time, Place, and Manner of this particular sign in this particular news story is offensive.


    In order for this to be an irony, I would have to be of the mindset that I am absolutely right that there is a god and you would have to be absolutely wrong, I do believe there is a god but can entertain others ideals as well, I am not the one telling Atheists to stop talking about their beliefs, I am the one, along with most moderate Christians, Atheists, and other faiths saying not to do it next to an expression of someone else's religion. I am also NOT the one saying no municipality should be able to express their majority beliefs on public property, regardless of my own worldview. In other words, if these Atheists feel so challenged that they must suppress others expressions of faith, why? Other than a less than solid belief.


    You got one thing right, it was placed on public property, what part of that makes the Atheists placing a sign in it's direct area okay?



    You make a lot of assumptions, first, I am a Catholic, but not a devout, I haven't been inside a church in years, since the last wedding I attended. Second, I don't take anyone's free and protected expression being attacked or infringed, which is why I am on the Christian's side here, not because I am affiliated with said beliefs, third, I am not advocating, as I have already stated, majority rule, however, you are taking this victimized minority stance, MOST people of various faiths are NOT offended by others expression, so sorry if YOU INDIVIDUALLY are.


    You would see it that way, and trust me, you and others like you are the furthest things from our minds, until someone pulls stupid **** like we are seeing now, or the prayer bans in school, etc. Don't attack us and you won't hear anything from us, keep these attitudes up though, and it will eventually get ugly. Our attitude huh? Have you ever considered that whining and asserting rights you don't have get irritating and bring this to you.
    You go from -I'm not one of "them", I'm just arguing a point, to "you are the furthest things from our minds,"
    This tells me that you are not truthful OR that you make the same mistake most of us make in these debates; we use the words us and them in debate and without fail one of the debaters says "but I'm not one of them". Which is it?

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    Re: Atheists take aim at Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    "You feel" is not a compelling reason, the fact is you have a freedom OF not FROM religion.
    You're right, I was typing as if I were speaking to someone. I'll refrain from such politeness.

    The fact is that our government was established with equality and freedom for all. Jefferson was quite clear on the desire for there to be a separation of church and state so that neither would infringe on the rights of the other AND so that government would not favor a particular group over another. This makes our government secular as was intended. I can provide the words of Jefferson and his peers but I cannot force you to accept the ideology so you may trot out whatever argument against THEIR words as you deem necessary to convince yourself that this is a xian nation founded on xian principles and should therefore favor xianity in whatever matter or manner.

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    Re: Atheists take aim at Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by Slippery Slope View Post
    Because placing your religious trappings on property owned by every citizen, when you could and usually do place it on property owned by your religion is the same as saying that you have no regard for other people who own that property as well. Every time you place something religious on public property you are saying to those who do not believe in your religion (not just atheists) that you think we are all stupid for not believing as well as saying I don't care about your beliefs because you are wrong and I am right. You are pushing your religion in my face just as surely as if you walked up to me on the street and shoved a cross in my face and called me a heathen. I do not want your religious garbage on my property, you want to put it there against my wishes therefore you are the instigator.
    I certainly hope you are using the general "you" here, especially since I have, not only, never claimed on any of the things you mentioned above, but have denounced them and believe the opposite. I am against religion and government being mixed in any way.

    So, who are you talking to?

    Now, you made it fairly clear that you think you are not one of the extremists and you want us to believe you have the live and let live attitude. Do you feel the same way about the majority of muslims that do not stand up against the extremists in their religion or does providing the foundation for extremism only apply to other religions?
    Be more clear. I am not sure what you are asking.

    And by the way, in the post of mine that you quoted. You seem to be behaving exactly like one of the extreme atheists that I describe. You are lumping all those who believe in GOD in one group, and attacking them all.
    Last edited by CaptainCourtesy; 12-15-08 at 04:55 PM.
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    Re: Atheists take aim at Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Hah! You do not get the concept of Time Place Manner at all. You're personal offense is not required in that, it is not anyone else's problem but YOURS if you see offense where there is none intended.
    In your opinion. TPM is exactly about offending 1 or 1 million. Quantity is irrelevant. In my opinion...

    Religious symbols at holiday times are done for communal celebration, if YOU are personally offended by that it's your problem.
    But not everyone celebrates the holiday as a religious celebration. This is why the White House lights a xmass tree every year instead of a manger.

    The sign in question done by the Atheists was done specifically to attack.
    In your opinion.

    Time:Christian Holiday, Place: Public Square, Manner: Condescending and directly in front of a Christian symbol.
    Again you offer nothing but your opinion. Some xians find the sign offensive, I find the nativity offensive. The sign didn't seem to be directly in front of the nativity.

    Any reasonable person of multiple faiths could be offended by that behavior.
    I haven't seen any people of other religious faiths complaining so your assertion is incorrect.

    You are trying to argue that Time:Christian Holiday, Place: Public Square, Manner: Reverential toward said Christian holiday offends YOU so it is an attack, get over yourself, most reasonable people would either participate or ignore, YOU however and that 5% I have talked about earlier in this thread have decided to become butt hurt over it.
    You can try to insult me if you like but I am not "butt hurt" by any of this other than the incredulous nonsense that xians continually hoist on all of us which we are told to either accept or move along. I wonder if I can find "condescending" elsewhere in your arguments.
    Last edited by Slippery Slope; 12-15-08 at 04:54 PM.

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    Re: Atheists take aim at Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    I certainly hope you are using the general "you" here, especially since I have, not only, never claimed on any of the things you mentioned above, but have denounced them and believe the opposite. I am against religion and government being mixed in any way.
    Yes I'm using "you, your" et al in the general sense and if it doesn't apply to you then it wasn't directed at you. If you are arguing for or against one side then I am assuming it's OK to present my argument against your words.

    Be more clear. I am not sure what you are asking.
    I don't think I can be more clear on that subject.

    And by the way, in the post of mine that you quoted. You seem to be behaving exactly like one of the extreme atheists that I describe. You are lumping all those who believe in GOD in one group, and attacking them all.
    If lumping together all those who believe in an a deity makes me an extremist then either you don't understand the term or are using it incorrectly.
    Last edited by Slippery Slope; 12-15-08 at 05:36 PM.

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    Re: Atheists take aim at Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by earthworm View Post
    Pray tell, Slippery Slope,where is this in our Constitution ?
    Well, to be honest I'm not a Constitutional law professor so I could be wrong but doesn't equal right imply equality? Perhaps there is no sentence that says "the majority...blah blah" but I think the ideology is quite clear and I'm sure I could skinny up a few SCOTUS decisions to back up that ideology.

    Or you could prove me wrong.

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