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Thread: Atheists take aim at Christmas

  1. #251
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    Re: Atheists take aim at Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by JMak View Post
    Wait a second...you read that comment from me and interpreted it to mean that I was really saying just screw everyone else who is not Christian?

    That is absurd.
    Not absurd at all. In my 3 years here, I've read thousands and thousands of posts and am pretty adept at understanding their meaning. You may want to relook at how you post, since you are saying your intention was not to communicate what you asserted.

    To arrive at such an interpretation you must be imputing some motivations to me. Hence, it ain't my words, but your attribution to me of certain prejudices or biases.
    No, perhaps it is your communication style.

    And I find that drawing an equivalency between door-to-door sales and missionary work to be gross. And the only reason such an equivalency is presented is to explicitly caricature Christians and others who do neighborhood work to spread their faith and gin up interest in their house of worship.
    This is a straw man. I find you suggesting that missionary work is not selling in the least as naive, or intentionally misleading. Not everyone who does good works in the neighborhood are trying to convert. But some are, and the mere definition of "missionary work" is defined as proselytizing and attempting to convert.



    I know what it is intended to mean. I simply see the shift from Merry Christmas to Happy Holidays and banning Christmas decorations by local governments, public universities, and private firms because "Merry Christmas" (as the California State University at Sacramento and UNC-Charlotte administrators believed) was "ethnically insensitive" as just another in a long string of events removing Christianity from the public square.

    Please don't act as though I merely have a problem with the words. My posts have clearly indicated what I perceive to be a much larger/broader issue here.
    Sure. But you have packaged your broader issue to include all those who use the term. Try not to post in absolutes and you may be able to communicate more clear. Not all who use the term "happy holidays" are attacking Christmas/Christians. In fact though some are, most are not. Try to remember this.
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    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

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    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
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  2. #252
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    Re: Atheists take aim at Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by JMak View Post
    Again, I don't think it's an issue of anyone being forced to say Happy Holidays. It's just another example of Christian symbols bieng eliminated from public view. Whether by CSU-Sacramento or UNC-Charlotte banning Christmas decorations or NY state's Dept of Education prohibiting Christian Nativity scenes and creches from public school Christmas displays but permitting Menorahs and Muslim Moom and Stars. This was followed by Palm Beach, Fla banning Christian symbols in a public square while permitting a Menorah to be placed there. BTW - The NY State Dept of Ed won subsequent litigation when the SCOTUS denied certioari after a district court and circuit court approved of the dept's decision to prohibit displaying a nativity scene or creche.

    Again the issue ain't simply about Merry Christmas being replaced by Happy Holidays. The issue is that this shift is just another in a long line of examples of a war against Christmas and the elimination of Christian symbols from the public square.

    Show of hands...any communities in their state yet resorted to denying that a Christmas tree ain't really a symbol of Christmas like the NJ town cited in the WSJ article above? Or left to argue that a pine tree places next to Menorah constitutes equal treatment of religious symbols?

    I mean, these are lengths people are going to segregate Chritianity from Christmas.
    The NJ town you are referring. I live within a few miles of that town. You have no idea of the demographics or the "feelings" of the area. The real reason the town defined the tree as a "tree of lights" to commemorate Pearl Harbor had nothing to do with segregating Christianity from Christmas in order to display the tree. It has more to do with some of the anti-semetism in the area.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  3. #253
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    Re: Atheists take aim at Christmas

    a "pearl harbor" tree....
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: Atheists take aim at Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    No, not at all. Your analysis is severely flawed.

    Christ's Mass is a separate celebration from Yule, entirely. The dates simply coincide as an attempt to keep pagans and Christians from killing each other on their holy days (holidays). And, yes, it was also an attempt at converting pagans but, in effect, the two holidays (holy days) are completely separate occurrences that now share a date or a season.

    Christmas is Christ's Mass. Yule is the celebration of the winter solstice. A mixing of the traditions does nothing to diminish the origins of either.
    But it's just a holiday invented by one side to take the place of an already existing holiday.

    In all honesty, it's not that I buy this argument personally; just as I don't buy the whole holiday argument because things do change. But Easter and Christmas are both based on pagan holidays and traditions (where you think the Easter Bunny came from?). In fact all the major holidays were born either for usurping already existing holidays or to enforce some necessary action (fasting during lent for instance).
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    Re: Atheists take aim at Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    But the origins of the holiday are completely pagan. It was merely renamed by the Christians. Shouldn't the original be what we take as the true meaning?
    The actual Mass is Christian, you are equating the celebratory tradition to the rites, which is not correct.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: Atheists take aim at Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Not absurd at all. In my 3 years here, I've read thousands and thousands of posts and am pretty adept at understanding their meaning. You may want to relook at how you post, since you are saying your intention was not to communicate what you asserted.

    No, perhaps it is your communication style.
    Fair points. I try to be careful which is why my comments tend to be quite long.

    This is a straw man. I find you suggesting that missionary work is not selling in the least as naive, or intentionally misleading. Not everyone who does good works in the neighborhood are trying to convert. But some are, and the mere definition of "missionary work" is defined as proselytizing and attempting to convert.
    You're entitled to your opinion whether I am naive or misleading. But I just don't see a similarity between a door-to-door salesman and a church group walking the beat drumming up interest in their faith. Maybe that's because I am imposing my own personal perception of door-to-door salesman as annoyances and cutting church people some slack.

    Sure. But you have packaged your broader issue to include all those who use the term. Try not to post in absolutes and you may be able to communicate more clear. Not all who use the term "happy holidays" are attacking Christmas/Christians. In fact though some are, most are not. Try to remember this.
    I haven't been talking absolutes. I have been citing examples of what I see as attacks against Christianity. I view this shift from Merry Christmas to Happy Holidays as just another example of that. That doesn't mean I think people saying Happy Holidays are individually attacking Christianity. I do think that this shift is to specifically remove Christianity from the public view.

    I think this because on the polling data I posted earlier, the majority of Americans don't feel that the replacement of Merry Christmas with Happy Holidays is a good thing. I infer from that that reason it's not a good thing is because it is diminishing the true character of Christmas and the Christmas season. If Happy Holidays was really just a proxy for Thanksgiving, Christmas, and New Year's then we would not see Merry Christmas being replaced by Happy Holidays. Instead, they'd co-exist side-by-side.

  7. #257
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    Re: Atheists take aim at Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    The word's origin is what it is. I'm not sure what kind of "transgression" a word can make but I am sure God forgives those transgressions, too. LOL
    A word's origin is where the word came from... hence originate. A term is not confined to the same meaning as the term from which it originated.
    "An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it." - Gandhi

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    Re: Atheists take aim at Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    The NJ town you are referring. I live within a few miles of that town. You have no idea of the demographics or the "feelings" of the area. The real reason the town defined the tree as a "tree of lights" to commemorate Pearl Harbor had nothing to do with segregating Christianity from Christmas in order to display the tree. It has more to do with some of the anti-semetism in the area.
    I don't need to know the feelings of the townspeople there to recognize the hilarity of that situation.

    What they were trying to do was avoid putting up a Menorah by calling the Christmas tree something other than what it was. It's just like avoiding calling Christmas Christmas to avoid offending someone.

    It's removing the central point of the thing in question. The tree wuld not exist but for Christmas. To call it something else is simply dumb.

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    Re: Atheists take aim at Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by EgoffTib View Post
    A word's origin is where the word came from... hence originate. A term is not confined to the same meaning as the term from which it originated.
    Well for give the word for transgressing then.

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    Re: Atheists take aim at Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    Well for give the word for transgressing then.
    The way you've quoted it and italicized, I've inferred you think that I'm improperly using the word "transgress".

    transgressing - definition of transgressing by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.
    "An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it." - Gandhi

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