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Thread: Atheists take aim at Christmas

  1. #141
    Androgyne
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    Re: Atheists take aim at Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by JMak View Post
    Wow! How did you cull that from my comments? Now you're just revealing your dishonesty.
    That's what I got from your comments. If I'm incorrect, please correct me. What did you mean?

  2. #142
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    Re: Atheists take aim at Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by JMak View Post
    There's the bad faith, again.

    Why is it a big deal to include non-Christians in the Christmas celebration? I ask, are non-Christians such big babies that they can't stand someone with other beliefs?
    Why is it a big deal to be inclusive and say Happy Holidays if it includes Christians and everyone else?

    Oh, and by the way, I personally don't see a problem with saying Merry Christmas to someone. I just don't see why you find it to be a problem when a company says Happy Holidays instead of Merry Christmas.

  3. #143
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    Re: Atheists take aim at Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by dclxvinoise View Post
    No, for selling their religion. Obviously Mormons aren't the only ones who do that crap.
    I love the characterization of it as "selling." But i understand that you feel compelled to caricature that which you don't like, find offensive, or otherwise disagree with. It avoids the substance altogether, right?

    They are promoting their religion. They are essentially assuming that people are stupid and haven't heard of Mormonism and that they should adopt these views. I call that door-to-door sales.
    Again, another caricature.Attributing false motivations to them that are only useful to serve your gross mischaracterization of those you find offensive.

    Nice attempt to trip me up.
    Not tripping you. Just drawing an analogy to test the good faith of your argument.

    First of all, I don't agree with that kind of political campaigning at all, regardless of who the candidate is. A guy from Obama headquarters in California called me and tried to get me to volunteer and I told him to go **** himself.

    Secondly, what does Obama have to do with the discussion? Please, try to stay on topic.
    Testing your good faith is all. It seems that you are truly serious about your gross caricatures of those you find offensive.

  4. #144
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    Re: Atheists take aim at Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by dclxvinoise View Post
    That's what I got from your comments. If I'm incorrect, please correct me. What did you mean?
    There's no way you cold have concluded that from my comments. I commented that wishing someone a Merry Christmas is explicitly including them in the holiday.

    You drew from that that I was saying screw everyone else.

    There's no way a good faith reading of my comments gets you to such a conclusion.

    Yet another gross caricature from you.

  5. #145
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    Re: Atheists take aim at Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by JMak View Post
    I love the characterization of it as "selling." But i understand that you feel compelled to caricature that which you don't like, find offensive, or otherwise disagree with. It avoids the substance altogether, right?
    What else would you call going door to door in an attempt to convert someone to their religion?

    Again, another caricature.Attributing false motivations to them that are only useful to serve your gross mischaracterization of those you find offensive.
    I don't find them offensive at all. I have no problem with them aside from the fact that they feel the need to go door-to-door to try and sell their religion by converting others.

    Not tripping you. Just drawing an analogy to test the good faith of your argument.

    Testing your good faith is all. It seems that you are truly serious about your gross caricatures of those you find offensive.
    Again, I don't find them offensive. I have a friend who is Mormon. Obviously, we disagree about religion but that doesn't mean that I find his beliefs offensive or that he finds mine offensive.

  6. #146
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    Re: Atheists take aim at Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by JMak View Post
    There's no way you cold have concluded that from my comments. I commented that wishing someone a Merry Christmas is explicitly including them in the holiday.

    You drew from that that I was saying screw everyone else.

    There's no way a good faith reading of my comments gets you to such a conclusion.

    Yet another gross caricature from you.
    Well, here's how I see it. From what I've gathered in your posts you have a problem with people saying Happy Holidays. Happy Holidays is an all-inclusive statement. Merry Christmas isn't. Merry Christmas references a specific holiday of a specific religion. I don't think it's offensive to tell someone that. However, I fail to see what problem there is with saying something like "Happy Holidays" instead to be more inclusive just in case they aren't Christian. I see it as a courteous gesture more than anything.

  7. #147
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    Re: Atheists take aim at Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by dclxvinoise View Post
    Why is it a big deal to be inclusive and say Happy Holidays if it includes Christians and everyone else?
    Again, obviously, Christians, and for that matter, nearly 60% of Americans, don't see Happy Holidays as including them (and I'm inferring that from the fact that 60+% of Americans prefer Merry Christmas to Happy Holidays).

    Oh, and by the way, I personally don't see a problem with saying Merry Christmas to someone. I just don't see why you find it to be a problem when a company says Happy Holidays instead of Merry Christmas.
    Because it is symbolic of something larger. Whether it's eliminating Christian symbols from the public square, school prayer, etc., it's an attack on Christianity.

    Heh, I recall just a few years ago that the major media and others declared the attack on Christmas/Christinaity to be a manufactured crisis...I'm glad this has changed.

  8. #148
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    Re: Atheists take aim at Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by JMak View Post
    Again, obviously, Christians, and for that matter, nearly 60% of Americans, don't see Happy Holidays as including them (and I'm inferring that from the fact that 60+% of Americans prefer Merry Christmas to Happy Holidays).
    I don't think it's an issue of whether it includes them. I think that a lot of people are offended that Christianity doesn't have the limelight when that statement is made. I think they also fear that people are doing it for purely PC reasons.

    Because it is symbolic of something larger. Whether it's eliminating Christian symbols from the public square, school prayer, etc., it's an attack on Christianity.
    It isn't an attack on Christianity. If it were an attack on Christianity they would be trying to eradicate these things from existence, not just from public arenas.

    Heh, I recall just a few years ago that the major media and others declared the attack on Christmas/Christinaity to be a manufactured crisis...I'm glad this has changed.
    It is manufactured. It has become nothing more than an annual topic interest for Bill O'Reilly to prattle on about.

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    Re: Atheists take aim at Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by dclxvinoise View Post
    What else would you call going door to door in an attempt to convert someone to their religion?
    Well, first, those going door-to-door are not seeking to convert someone on the spot. So, secondly, it ain't as you characterize it.

    I don't find them offensive at all. I have no problem with them aside from the fact that they feel the need to go door-to-door to try and sell their religion by converting others.
    Why do you think they are selling it? Can it not be that they're attracting interest in their specific house of worship? Can it not be that they're attempting to spread the words of their faith?

    To you it appears that the answer is no. Rather, there are snake oil salesman...

    Again, I don't find them offensive. I have a friend who is Mormon. Obviously, we disagree about religion but that doesn't mean that I find his beliefs offensive or that he finds mine offensive.
    I wasn't saying you find their beliefs offensive, but the way they choose to spread their word and attract interest to their house of worship.

  10. #150
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    Re: Atheists take aim at Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by JMak View Post
    Well, first, those going door-to-door are not seeking to convert someone on the spot. So, secondly, it ain't as you characterize it.
    Well, obviously it isn't on the spot. That would be impossible. However, they want to come in and explain their religion to you as if you aren't capable of doing the research on your own if you were even interested in the first place.

    Why do you think they are selling it? Can it not be that they're attracting interest in their specific house of worship? Can it not be that they're attempting to spread the words of their faith?
    Why do they feel the need to do so, though? You don't see other non-Christian religions doing this. With all of the demonizing that people have done to Islam, you'd think they'd be doing it, but they don't. It's because Christians have a "good guy" badge and feel the need to save and convert everyone.

    To you it appears that the answer is no. Rather, there are snake oil salesman...

    I wasn't saying you find their beliefs offensive, but the way they choose to spread their word and attract interest to their house of worship.
    It doesn't really offend me, but I do disagree with it and openly criticize it. I mostly just think it's absurd and arrogant.

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