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Thread: Atheists take aim at Christmas

  1. #111
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    Re: Atheists take aim at Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Simple question: If you could end the Christian celebration of Christmas, would you?

    Yes or no
    Do you mean end of Christians celebration of Christmas like they do now or the end of Christians celebration of Christmas like they should be?

    I would think any Christian would be supporting of ending the celebration of Christmas like it is now because of all the commercialism and the detraction of what Christmas is supposed to be to them.

    That is why I think it is hilarious that Christians want to boycott stores that say Happy Holidays. It's not like a store says Merry Christmas because they believe in Christian values, they just want your money.

    Same goes for atheists that try to make a store say Happy Holidays, it's silly because the stores won't do it because they believe in the same values the person boycotting it does, they just want your money.

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    Re: Atheists take aim at Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by Gibberish View Post
    That's quite a contradiction from your last post. You seemed quite adamant that Jesus was conceived in March and born on December 25. If you truly believe it doesn't matter then I won't respond to your rebuttal as it would be a pointless tangent to the discussion.

    I share the opinion the date really doesn't matter. I also don't have a problem with the Council of Nicea moving the birth to December 25 to help convert Roman pagans. It was a smart move and a requirement to transition Rome from paganism to Christianity.
    I was merely pointing out that the date was not primarily for the purpose of converting pagans. There is solid basis for the date having no relationship with that. I did not assert that this was the date of his birth.
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  3. #113
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    Re: Atheists take aim at Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    Do you mean end of Christians celebration of Christmas like they do now or the end of Christians celebration of Christmas like they should be?

    I would think any Christian would be supporting of ending the celebration of Christmas like it is now because of all the commercialism and the detraction of what Christmas is supposed to be to them.
    I am in complete agreement with this. I love Christmas, but I am very said at what it has become - something underscored by what happened at that Wal Mart in Long Island.
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  4. #114
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    Re: Atheists take aim at Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    I was merely pointing out that the date was not primarily for the purpose of converting pagans. There is solid basis for the date having no relationship with that.
    If Jesus was not born on December 25 what solid basis is there for celebrating his birth on December 25 other then to convert Roman pagans (who already celebrated the birth of Mithra (the unconquered sun) on December 25)?

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    I did not assert that this was the date of his birth.
    The below seems like an assertion to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Did you notice that the December 25th date is exactly NINE MONTHS after the Annunciation? Didn't think so.
    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    WHat are we celebrating on December 25? The birth of the Son of God. The traditional date for that celebration is exactly nine months after the Annunciation to Mary. Hint - It is generally held that a woman's normal term is about nine months.
    Last edited by Gibberish; 12-08-08 at 11:56 AM.
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    Re: Atheists take aim at Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    That is why I think it is hilarious that Christians want to boycott stores that say Happy Holidays. It's not like a store says Merry Christmas because they believe in Christian values, they just want your money.
    You're simply presuming that those who do advocate boycotting those stores are shopping at stores that continue to use "Merry Christmas" because they believe that those stores are reflecting some preference of Christian values.

    It's a presumption that's only useful in caricaturing Christians as dopes.

    I know I prefer stores that continue to use "Merry Christmas" because they have not bowed to public pressure to rid the public square of religion. That's why I am frustrated by Amazon's "Merry Holiday" nonsense. It's not because I think Amazin has now jettisoned what I perceived to be its faith or preference for Christian values. It's because I will support retailers that resist attempts to erase religion from the celebration of Christmas.

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    Re: Atheists take aim at Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by JMak View Post
    You're simply presuming that those who do advocate boycotting those stores are shopping at stores that continue to use "Merry Christmas" because they believe that those stores are reflecting some preference of Christian values.

    It's a presumption that's only useful in caricaturing Christians as dopes.

    I know I prefer stores that continue to use "Merry Christmas" because they have not bowed to public pressure to rid the public square of religion. That's why I am frustrated by Amazon's "Merry Holiday" nonsense. It's not because I think Amazin has now jettisoned what I perceived to be its faith or preference for Christian values. It's because I will support retailers that resist attempts to erase religion from the celebration of Christmas.
    They aren't erasing religion at all. They are opening it up because Christianity doesn't have a monopoly on the holiday season like they seem to think they do. It's not about being politically correct, but being open to the myriad of cultures and traditions that we have in this country.

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    Re: Atheists take aim at Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by dclxvinoise View Post
    They aren't erasing religion at all. They are opening it up because Christianity doesn't have a monopoly on the holiday season like they seem to think they do. It's not about being politically correct, but being open to the myriad of cultures and traditions that we have in this country.

    Not erasing? I would characterize the elimination of Christian language and symbols as erasure. Wouldn't you? What would you call it otherwise?

    And how does using "Happy Holidays", that would not be celebrated now anyway except for Christmas, constitute to being open to cultures and traditions?

    It doesn't. What it represents is the continuing attack of Christianity on those seeking to eliminate it from the public square.

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    Re: Atheists take aim at Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by JMak View Post
    Not erasing? I would characterize the elimination of Christian language and symbols as erasure. Wouldn't you? What would you call it otherwise?
    They aren't eliminating anything. Do you seriously think that embracing all cultures will somehow make Christmas cease to exist?

    And how does using "Happy Holidays", that would not be celebrated now anyway except for Christmas, constitute to being open to cultures and traditions?
    I've always thought that Happy Holidays works even for Christians because it covers all of the late year - new year holidays (Thanksgiving - New Years). However, it can even cover the holidays celebrated by other religions and cultures. How is that a bad thing?

    It doesn't. What it represents is the continuing attack of Christianity on those seeking to eliminate it from the public square.


    It isn't attacking Christianity at all. Just because Christians are starting to be taken away from the limelight and are no longer holding a monopoly on the holiday season doesn't mean that it's trying to attack or eliminate it. If you really think that the foundations of Christianity are so weak that embracing all religious holidays is a bad thing then you obviously have very little faith in Christianity.

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    Re: Atheists take aim at Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    Do you mean end of Christians celebration of Christmas like they do now or the end of Christians celebration of Christmas like they should be?

    I would think any Christian would be supporting of ending the celebration of Christmas like it is now because of all the commercialism and the detraction of what Christmas is supposed to be to them.

    That is why I think it is hilarious that Christians want to boycott stores that say Happy Holidays. It's not like a store says Merry Christmas because they believe in Christian values, they just want your money.

    Same goes for atheists that try to make a store say Happy Holidays, it's silly because the stores won't do it because they believe in the same values the person boycotting it does, they just want your money.
    Yes or no is a hard thing to comprehend isn't it? I wasn't asking for nuance.
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    Re: Atheists take aim at Christmas

    Quote Originally Posted by JMak View Post
    Not erasing? I would characterize the elimination of Christian language and symbols as erasure. Wouldn't you? What would you call it otherwise?

    And how does using "Happy Holidays", that would not be celebrated now anyway except for Christmas, constitute to being open to cultures and traditions?

    It doesn't. What it represents is the continuing attack of Christianity on those seeking to eliminate it from the public square.
    I think it represents companies starting to understand their consumer base a little bit more. And what does it matter anyway? Not everyone is Christian, companies know that now. Companies don't care what religion you are, they merely want your money. So they are obviously going to start moving in ways which are more inclusive of a larger set of people as to not alienate them. I don't get all the hubbub. Things don't stay the same forever, things always change. Stagnation is bad, it's slow death. So companies now are trying to do things which include more of their customer base. Big deal, I'd expect companies to move in that direction. It's not bowing to political pressure or PC crap or any of that. It's private companies changing policy to be more inclusive; that's it.
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