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Thread: Experts warn Barack Obama of 'hornet's nest' in Middle East

  1. #41
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    Re: Experts warn Barack Obama of 'hornet's nest' in Middle East

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post

    Which is your branch, of Islam Laila?
    Sunni Muslim =D
    I like Sufi style Islam but the traditions of being Sunni has been with me since birth so no point

    Oh its an excuse to hate Islam, i think it just secretley means they hate Muslims but its too 'controversial' to say that so they'd rather say they hate the religion :P


  2. #42
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    Re: Experts warn Barack Obama of 'hornet's nest' in Middle East

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    The true Moderate i named is being tortured, its an insult that Rushdie is more well known than him.
    But he is. Which just proves my point: When one is dead, one can do very little good.

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila
    He stood up for his beliefs and has had his kneecaps broken and has faced jail in defending it. What has Rushdie done? Write a book and he has a knighthood ... Disgusting :/
    He stood up for his beliefs in the face of death too. There's a difference between risking your life (such as continuing to voice one's opinion despite having an Iranian bounty on one's head) and WASTING your life (as Rushdie would be doing if he surrendered himself to Iran, as you want).

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila
    A good start would be:
    1. Condemning terrorist attacks committed by fellow Muslims, even if they're committed against non-Muslims. Done.
    Condemning terrorist attacks means more than a token "Done" when asked for a condemnation. You seem to expend a lot more energy denouncing Salman Rushdie and Ayaan Hirsi Ali than you do denouncing Hamas, al-Qaeda, and Hezbollah.

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila
    2. Believing that men and women are equal. Some Muslim countries do that.
    I can count the number on one hand. And still have fingers left over.

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila
    3. Not believing that all or most non-Muslim countries are involved in a grand conspiracy to destroy Islam. Already we all know that
    Do you deny that that's a commonly-held view in the Muslim world?

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila
    4. Not supporting the total annihilation of Israel. Iran does not represent 1.2 billion of us
    Very true. This particular point applies more to the Arab world and the Iranian government than it does to, say, Muslims in Indonesia. However, anti-semitism is very widespread throughout the Muslim world.

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila
    5. Tolerating the views of non-Muslims and Muslims alike, even if one believes that they are offensive to Islam. (Note: Tolerating is not the same as respecting) I tolerated the Danish Cartoons and books such as Infidel
    Was that before or after you decided Salman Rushdie was a pussy for not voluntarily submitting himself to torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila
    6. Stop making excuses for Muslim extremists, as you are doing right now. Where did i make excuses for blowing someone up? I have said again and again, suicide is forbidden in Islam.
    The fact that you consider the problem with suicide bombings to be suicide, rather than bombing, speaks miles about you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila
    Ofc they do and i have continually denounced them, ignoring me does not mean i have never said it.
    This will be a lot more credible when you start going after Islamic terrorists with the same vitriol you go after Islamic apostates.
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  3. #43
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    Re: Experts warn Barack Obama of 'hornet's nest' in Middle East

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    Sunni Muslim =D
    I like Sufi style Islam but the traditions of being Sunni has been with me since birth so no point

    Oh its an excuse to hate Islam, i think it just secretley means they hate Muslims but its too 'controversial' to say that so they'd rather say they hate the religion :P
    I personally see no reason for it.

    I'm very attached to British culture and my local region and I wouldn't want to see those greatly altered in an Islamic fashion in the same way as I wouldn't want them altered in a Hindu or Polish fashion. I don't mind a Mosque or temple being built but I would no want it vying for attention with Salisbury Cathedral for instance within the Salisbury skyline. Likewise I would not wish to see Islamic or Polish heritage completely altered for that of the US or West in Warsaw or Jordan.

    So I can understand apprehension by some at the changes in recent decades in some parts of the west, although it is far from limited to Muslims, but why this means you have to despise Islam I don't know nor can I think of other decent reasons.
    Last edited by Wessexman; 12-04-08 at 06:46 AM.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  4. #44
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    Re: Experts warn Barack Obama of 'hornet's nest' in Middle East

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    But he is. Which just proves my point: When one is dead, one can do very little good.
    Erm ... he is still alive :S


    Condemning terrorist attacks means more than a token "Done" when asked for a condemnation. You seem to expend a lot more energy denouncing Salman Rushdie and Ayaan Hirsi Ali than you do denouncing Hamas, al-Qaeda, and Hezbollah.
    Muslims condemn. Western media ignores. Not my fault.
    I have denounced Al Qaeda more than enough and im getting fed up of having to repeat my positions. Go back and read my posts

    Do you deny that that's a commonly-held view in the Muslim world?
    Absolutely.
    A vocal minority does not represent the majority.

    Very true. This particular point applies more to the Arab world and the Iranian government than it does to, say, Muslims in Indonesia. However, anti-semitism is very widespread throughout the Muslim world.
    Well im African so it doesn't count for me.

    Was that before or after you decided Salman Rushdie was a pussy for not voluntarily submitting himself to torture?
    He is a pussy for not doing that in a Muslim country.
    I can go US and denounce Islam and call it evil because im protected.
    Those who should be truley respected are those Muslims doing so in a Muslim country.

    The fact that you consider the problem with suicide bombings to be suicide, rather than bombing, speaks miles about you.
    Im not even going to bother.
    I have said enough times what i think about suicide bombers, i am not going to waste my time repeating it.

    This will be a lot more credible when you start going after Islamic terrorists with the same vitriol you go after Islamic apostates.
    Oooh LOL
    Don't call them Moderate Muslims and it'll be fine,


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    Re: Experts warn Barack Obama of 'hornet's nest' in Middle East

    I can't comment on much of the report, as I have not yet read details on those sections, but I was surprised that the section on the Arab-Israeli conflict appeared to contain fundamental misjudgments. Two points in particular are:

    1. "Encourage the continuation of a Lebanese national unity government and its participation in negotiations with Israel."

    The problem with the unity government is that the Hezbollah terrorist organization has gained a functional veto over major decisions. That terrorist organization has remained an implacable enemy of Israel, rejected peace negotiations between Lebanon and Israel (something Lebanon's government has also done) and has shown no meaningful indications of a willingness to accept a peace agreement.

    2. "Washington should support concilition between Fatah and Hamas as a way to diminish the Islamists' incentive to undermine negotiations..."

    The Hamas terrorist group's charter makes abundantly clear that the terrorist organization does not recognize Israel's right to exist and that it rejects any compromises with Israel. Even when the Madrid Quartet offered Hamas a path to become involved in negotiations, Hamas rejected it. Hamas has repeatedly reaffirmed positions consistent with its Charter despite significant international isolation. Fatah-Hamas conciliation would more than likely increase the Palestinian intransigence that has minimized prospects for a final settlement and limit any chances that a negotiated agreement could be reached.

    The report also misses an opportunity to call on the U.S. to inject realism into the negotiating process. Unfortunately, even as the report calls for the new U.S. President to "hold Israel to its commitment to freeze new construction of Jewish settlements," and that's a position Israel has accepted, it contains no language to the effect of pressing the Palestinians to abandon their unwavering insistence that Palestinian refugees be settled in Israel. A policy that seeks to create a realistic framework for peace would seek to knock down positions that are dealbreakers. If implemented, the Palestinians' demand concerning refugees would put at risk Israel's status as a Jewish majority state.
    Last edited by donsutherland1; 12-04-08 at 08:21 AM.

  6. #46
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    Re: Experts warn Barack Obama of 'hornet's nest' in Middle East

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    Erm ... he is still alive :S
    Rushdie is alive, and Rushdie's views are well-known. Some random dissident executed by some Arab dictator years ago can't do very much to make his views known.

    Your declaration that he's a "pussy" for not submitting himself to torture and execution is absurd.

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila
    Muslims condemn. Western media ignores. Not my fault.
    I have denounced Al Qaeda more than enough and im getting fed up of having to repeat my positions. Go back and read my posts
    You make excuses for Muslim extremists. You're doing it right now, by blaming Salman Rushdie and Ayaan Hirsi Ali - instead of the people trying to murder them - for Islam's bad reputation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila
    He is a pussy for not doing that in a Muslim country.
    I can go US and denounce Islam and call it evil because im protected.
    Those who should be truley respected are those Muslims doing so in a Muslim country.
    Hypocrite. You live in one of the most cosmopolitan cities in the world, and yet you STILL make excuses for medieval thugs. What's YOUR excuse?

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila
    Im not even going to bother.
    I have said enough times what i think about suicide bombers, i am not going to waste my time repeating it.
    Ya, you said that you disapprove of them because suicide is a sin. I guess as long as they only blow up infidels and not themselves, it's A-OK with you?
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  7. #47
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    Re: Experts warn Barack Obama of 'hornet's nest' in Middle East

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Rushdie is alive, and Rushdie's views are well-known. Some random dissident executed by some Arab dictator years ago can't do very much to make his views known.
    I was not referring to Rushdie.

    You make excuses for Muslim extremists. You're doing it right now, by blaming Salman Rushdie and Ayaan Hirsi Ali - instead of the people trying to murder them - for Islam's bad reputation.
    I made no excuses.
    I don't blame Rushdie or Hirsi Ali for terrorism o.O
    I just think they do not deserve recognition for doing nothing.

    Hypocrite. You live in one of the most cosmopolitan cities in the world, and yet you STILL make excuses for medieval thugs. What's YOUR excuse?
    Hypocrite? I have not stated i support Islamic extremists, on the contrary, i have provided quotes that show the opposite.

    Ya, you said that you disapprove of them because suicide is a sin. I guess as long as they only blow up infidels and not themselves, it's A-OK with you?
    Erm ... No it is not :/
    Im against killing any civilians. The Qu'ran forbids it.
    Last edited by Laila; 12-04-08 at 03:26 PM.


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    Re: Experts warn Barack Obama of 'hornet's nest' in Middle East

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    If you want Muslims to respect you, go face them.
    Don't do so in the comfort and security of the west.
    Ya go face them so they can cut your head off, good call.


    Hanging Gays is wrong, not every Muslim country does that.
    Name a Muslim country where homosexuality is not outlawed.



    I support Freedom of speech and always have done so but i disagree, we have every right to be offended if someone insults our Prophets. We just don't have the right to suppress it.
    I said you don't have a right "not to be offended" you can be offended all you want just don't riot in the streets.

    So you are new and by that you have missed me condeming terrorists, me supporting Israel's right to exist, me saying freedom of speech should also be upheld despite what European Muslims think, expressing a desire for Hadiths to be amended and Qu'ran verses to be condemned by Imam's worldwide ....

    Your ignorance in judging me by 1 post is showing.
    So do you or do you not condemn Hezbollah and do you recognize them as legitimate? They can be a an armed organization or a political party they can not be both.


    She is an Athiest. EXACTLY.
    She is no moderate MUSLIM.
    She is someone who hates Islam and is making a living off insulting it.
    Many Athiests bash Islam, what makes her so damn special?
    What makes her special is that because she is critical of Islam she is under the threat of death.

    Arab Supremacism?
    Dude, im an E African not Arab
    Hence why i have 'Somali' on my profile

    I do not wish death on anyone.
    Just don't insult true Moderate Muslims by putting her as an example of it seeing she doesn't even follow Islam.
    Read the post that started this I didn't mention Hirsi Ali YOU DID!

  9. #49
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    Re: Experts warn Barack Obama of 'hornet's nest' in Middle East

    Quote Originally Posted by jin1776 View Post
    Ya go face them so they can cut your head off, good call.
    Nah, go face them and get their respect.
    Do not leave Islam, Go US, Insult Islam and my Prophets and expect Muslims to give a **** about what you say.
    Its insulting to say the least.

    Name a Muslim country where homosexuality is not outlawed.
    I haven't heard of any Gays being hanged recentley in Turkey or Jordan for example.

    So do you or do you not condemn Hezbollah and do you recognize them as legitimate? They can be a an armed organization or a political party they can not be both.
    I condemn them when they kill civilians, I do not when they fund hospitals and schools and give aid to families.

    What makes her special is that because she is critical of Islam she is under the threat of death.
    Please, As if other Athiests haven't been threatened when insulting Islam.
    Face it, she is nothing special. She is a disgrace, she didn't really think Muslims would be "cool" with her calling Islam evil right?
    Pity her education didn't teach her to be more subtle
    The only reason she hates Islam is because of what happened to her as a child - No need to blame Islam because you ran away from a forced marriage.

    How is she meant to help Africans or Somalis with Circumcision? She ensured that her words would make her hated. How clever !

    REAL Moderate Muslim females who should be admired by all Muslims.
    Female Imams



    Raheel Raza leads Canada's first mixed-gender Friday prayers outdoors in Toronto



    Nakia Jackson leads prayers in Cambridge in celebration of Eid al-Fitr
    Last edited by Laila; 12-06-08 at 05:42 AM.


  10. #50
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    Re: Experts warn Barack Obama of 'hornet's nest' in Middle East



    Pamela Taylor (left) leading Muslims in prayer in Toronto



    Laury Silvers giveing a sermon to a group of men and women in Cambridge for Eid.



    Nakia Jackson leading a mixed-gender group in prayer for Eid



    Raheel Raza gives a sermon and leads Friday prayers for a group that includes men and women in Toronto

    Those are females who im proud to say are Muslims, they are the ones who will make a change in Islam.

    If you want Islam to reform, support those who are still Muslims not the cowards who run away from it and then claim to want to change it from the outside - It is not possible.

    Those images above show a breaking of 1,500 year old traditions within Islam which gave Men the entire lead and authority within prayers. Its a very great period to be alive, i saw the first female to lead prayers in UK and prayed along side her with men for the first time.
    Last edited by Laila; 12-06-08 at 06:00 AM.


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