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Thread: Experts warn Barack Obama of 'hornet's nest' in Middle East

  1. #31
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    Re: Experts warn Barack Obama of 'hornet's nest' in Middle East

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    I was implying Rushdie is a little pussy, hiding in West and claiming he is something special when real moderate Muslims are being tortured in Muslim countries for their views. THOSE are the people i respect.
    Ya it's not like millions of Muslims around the globe would sooner cut his head off as look at him or anything.

    Half of those you named are worthless to me.

    Oh and perhaps you Jailman and Jin can define for me a Moderate Muslim
    What makes a Muslim moderate? If they accept homosexuality?
    Perhaps they can take a lesson from the evangelicals who say that they hate the sin but love the sinner, perhaps not hanging them for being gay would be a good place to start.

    Someone who sees no fault in the West? Someone who is Pro Israel?

    Ofc not.
    A only 'true' Moderate Muslim to alot of people is someone who renounces Islam and claims it is evil.
    They must support pluralistic secular governance and equality for all regardless of sex or creed this would entail rejecting sharia law on anything more than a personal level not at the community or national level IE they must support the complete separation of church and state IE in my book political Islam = radical Islam. In addition they must totally reject any calls for the limiting of free speech which does not call for violence, that means insults to the prophet are not to be met with violence, they must recognize that I have a right to free speech and they have absolutely 0 right not to be offended. And of course they must renounce the expansion of dar al-Islam through offensive Jihad and reject all groups who support this end. Now I am rather new to this forum and have only seen a few of your posts, however, I have already ascertained with my limited knowledge of your debate history that you have failed the third part of this litmus test with your showing of support for Hezbollah.


    Why do you think that retarded E African Ayaan Hirsi Ali is doing so well in United States?
    She's an atheist. And just what the hell does being E African have to do with it? Your Arab supremacism is showing.

    Her aim is to insult Muslims and Islam. She doesn't give a **** about Human rights or Somali women. The only reason we even know her name is because she made that film and her director got killed

    Of course you do dear, how much did she get paid to say that i wonder
    So what would you like to see done with her? Would you like her to share the fate of Theo Van Ghogh? You seem to truly dislike that poor woman.
    Last edited by jin1776; 12-04-08 at 04:30 AM.

  2. #32
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    Re: Experts warn Barack Obama of 'hornet's nest' in Middle East

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    Rushdie? He did? News to me
    You're joking right? Ayatollah Khomeni declared it himself when Rushdie printed "The Satanic Verses".

  3. #33
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    Re: Experts warn Barack Obama of 'hornet's nest' in Middle East

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    I was implying Rushdie is a little pussy, hiding in West and claiming he is something special when real moderate Muslims are being tortured in Muslim countries for their views. THOSE are the people i respect.
    How would the world be a better place if Salman Rushdie went to Iran and got tortured to death? When one is dead, there is very little one can do to make one's views known.

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila
    Oh and perhaps you Jailman and Jin can define for me a Moderate Muslim
    What makes a Muslim moderate? If they accept homosexuality? Someone who sees no fault in the West? Someone who is Pro Israel?
    A good start would be:
    1. Condemning terrorist attacks committed by fellow Muslims, even if they're committed against non-Muslims.
    2. Believing that men and women are equal.
    3. Not believing that all or most non-Muslim countries are involved in a grand conspiracy to destroy Islam.
    4. Not supporting the total annihilation of Israel.
    5. Tolerating the views of non-Muslims and Muslims alike, even if one believes that they are offensive to Islam. (Note: Tolerating is not the same as respecting)
    6. Stop making excuses for Muslim extremists, as you are doing right now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila
    Ofc not.
    A only 'true' Moderate Muslim to alot of people is someone who renounces Islam and claims it is evil.
    Why do you think that retarded E African Ayaan Hirsi Ali is doing so well in United States?
    Because it's such a novelty to hear a Muslim actually speak out against terrorism that it's a newsworthy event when it happens.

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila
    Her aim is to insult Muslims and Islam.
    You criticize HER for insulting Islam with her words, yet not a word about the terrorists who commit much greater insults against Islam by their actions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila
    She doesn't give a **** about Human rights or Somali women. The only reason we even know her name is because she made that film and her director got killed
    And who killed her director? A Chinese Buddhist?
    Last edited by Kandahar; 12-04-08 at 04:21 AM.
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  4. #34
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    Re: Experts warn Barack Obama of 'hornet's nest' in Middle East

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    How ridiculous.
    This was in reference to a specific article about legitimizing it.
    You also ignore the context of it and my posts after it.
    How does that translate as me supporting their actions?
    I stated in the same thread that what they do is illegal.
    And yet you support recognizing their legitimacy.

    If that is the best you can come up with, you may as well leave this discussion because it is pathetic.
    My point is a legitimite one, Hezbollah got elected into parts of Government by democracy ... No one can dispute that fact
    So did the Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei.

  5. #35
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    Re: Experts warn Barack Obama of 'hornet's nest' in Middle East

    Quote Originally Posted by jin1776 View Post
    Ya it's not like millions of Muslims around the globe would sooner cut his head off as look at him or anything.
    If you want Muslims to respect you, go face them.
    Don't do so in the comfort and security of the west.

    Perhaps they can take a lesson from the evangelicals who say that they hate the sin but love the sinner, perhaps not hanging them for being gay would be a good place to start.
    Hanging Gays is wrong, not every Muslim country does that.


    In addition they must totally reject any calls for the limiting of free speech which does not call for violence, that means insults to the prophet are not to be met with violence, they must recognize that I have a right to free speech and they have absolutely 0 right not to be offended.
    I support Freedom of speech and always have done so but i disagree, we have every right to be offended if someone insults our Prophets. We just don't have the right to suppress it.

    Now I am rather new to this forum and have only seen a few of your posts, however, I have already ascertained with my limited knowledge of your debate history that you have failed the third part of this litmus test with your showing of support for Hezbollah.
    So you are new and by that you have missed me condeming terrorists, me supporting Israel's right to exist, me saying freedom of speech should also be upheld despite what European Muslims think, expressing a desire for Hadiths to be amended and Qu'ran verses to be condemned by Imam's worldwide ....

    Your ignorance in judging me by 1 post is showing.

    She's an atheist. And just what the hell does being E African have to do with it? Your Arab supremacism is showing.
    She is an Athiest. EXACTLY.
    She is no moderate MUSLIM.
    She is someone who hates Islam and is making a living off insulting it.
    Many Athiests bash Islam, what makes her so damn special?

    Arab Supremacism?
    Dude, im an E African not Arab
    Hence why i have 'Somali' on my profile

    So what would you like to see done with her? Would you like her to share the fate of Theo Van Ghogh? You seem to truly dislike that poor woman.
    I do not wish death on anyone.
    Just don't insult true Moderate Muslims by putting her as an example of it seeing she doesn't even follow Islam.
    Last edited by Laila; 12-04-08 at 06:14 AM.


  6. #36
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    Re: Experts warn Barack Obama of 'hornet's nest' in Middle East

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    How would the world be a better place if Salman Rushdie went to Iran and got tortured to death? When one is dead, there is very little one can do to make one's views known.
    The true Moderate i named is being tortured, its an insult that Rushdie is more well known than him.
    He stood up for his beliefs and has had his kneecaps broken and has faced jail in defending it. What has Rushdie done? Write a book and he has a knighthood ... Disgusting :/


    A good start would be:
    1. Condemning terrorist attacks committed by fellow Muslims, even if they're committed against non-Muslims. Done.
    2. Believing that men and women are equal. Some Muslim countries do that.
    3. Not believing that all or most non-Muslim countries are involved in a grand conspiracy to destroy Islam. Already we all know that
    4. Not supporting the total annihilation of Israel. Iran does not represent 1.2 billion of us
    5. Tolerating the views of non-Muslims and Muslims alike, even if one believes that they are offensive to Islam. (Note: Tolerating is not the same as respecting) I tolerated the Danish Cartoons and books such as Infidel
    6. Stop making excuses for Muslim extremists, as you are doing right now. Where did i make excuses for blowing someone up? I have said again and again, suicide is forbidden in Islam.
    Because it's such a novelty to hear a Muslim actually speak out against terrorism that it's a newsworthy event when it happens.
    She is not Muslim

    You criticize HER for insulting Islam with her words, yet not a word about the terrorists who commit much greater insults against Islam by their actions.
    Ofc they do and i have continually denounced them, ignoring me does not mean i have never said it.


  7. #37
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    Re: Experts warn Barack Obama of 'hornet's nest' in Middle East

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    I would have no issues with all religious items being banned in Government buildings/schools tbh but for now, i don't mind hijabs but i do have problems with the Niqab and Abaya [full body cover]
    Niqabs on a 5yr old should never be tolerated.
    I hate both of them and because they have no actual basis on the Qu'ran or Hadiths - it is not mandatory and not needed
    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    Im a Muslim yes and i don't see where anyone would get the impression Muslims as a whole would agree with any form of attack on civilians.
    I think its disgusting what has occured and i hope UK Government aids India in catching these criminals and bringing them to justice.
    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    Interpretations of texts is what is the problem and yes, i do believe Islam needs to be reformed to not only prevent extremists exploiting certain verses but also to bring it more into the modern world. Ishallah i hope my Imams will clarify the Qu'ran's position on suicide bombings and killing innocent people lowering the chances of Muslims believing that interpretation of the Qu'ran.
    I do want certain verses in my holy book denounced world wide but not removed and i would rather we start seeing a united condemntation by all Muslim countries of actions done in Islams name.
    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    I want the British Government to say 'This is UK, This is how we do things. If you don't like it; leave'
    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    I was disgusted at the cartoons.
    But i felt physically ill when the cartoons was supressed by the Media.
    The same rights that allow me to sit here and speak my mind should equally protect those bashing any religion they please.
    Thats freedom and some European Muslims do need to realise they cannot have it both ways. They cannot benefit from those freedoms when it suits them without respecting those rights even if its something they do not like being said.
    The Governments let me down as a moderate Muslim for not telling those Muslims protesting violently to shut up and sit down and if they do not like it; to get out of Europe.

    Especially for you Jin seeing you are 'new' and haven't seen my range of posts in its proper format.
    I suggest you actually read my posts before judging me on one post.


  8. #38
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    Re: Experts warn Barack Obama of 'hornet's nest' in Middle East

    In Britain and Australia I recall seeing quite a few Muslim community leaders condemning extremist and terrorism on television.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  9. #39
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    Re: Experts warn Barack Obama of 'hornet's nest' in Middle East

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    In Britain and Australia I recall seeing quite a few Muslim community leaders condemning extremist and terrorism on television.
    Within 24 hours of India's attacks, Muslim Council of Britain condemned it.

    MCB Condemns Terrorist Attacks in Mumbai, Extends Condolences to Victims' Families

    The Muslim Council of Britain this evening condemned unequivocally the terrorist attacks in Mumbai that has resulted scores of deaths. The brutal murder of Indians and foreign nationals is unacceptable, there is no excuse for such acts, whatever the cause may be. Expressing his shock, Dr Muhammad Abdul Bari, Secretary General of the Muslim Council of Britain said "I condemn this heinous act and extend my sympathies and condolences to the bereaved. Many Britons have deep links with the city of Mumbai and India and I join them in this hour of sadness and anxiety."


  10. #40
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    Re: Experts warn Barack Obama of 'hornet's nest' in Middle East

    I've never understood this strange hatred of Islam even with the terrorist attacks.

    I'm a very particularist or parochial kind of a person and the traditions and heritage of England and particularly(in some ways almost entirely.) the South-West is the most dear to me by far but still Islam I find interesting enough, particularly the sufi kind. I don't know why it should be despise so much(unless you were a zoroastrian maybe.).

    Which is your branch, of Islam Laila?
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

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