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Thread: Chavez seeks indefinite re-election, again

  1. #61
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    Re: Chavez seeks indefinite re-election, again

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    The US is a federal system, it is meant to represent people within the states they live in not as an abstract mass. Now you may be a centralist who despises this but that is neither here not there to what the US is according to the constitution.
    me a centralist? Hardly. The more power to the locals the better, but only within reason and practicality. After all it aint exactly practical to have a military based on every town having a say on when and if their "troops" will go defend the town 10 miles down the road.

    However that still does not mean that, this power is given to the minority over the majority of the people, which is what the US system can and has done several times on the presidential stage and even locally. Districts "designed" to give a certain result is so undemocratic that it is laughable.

    You and others can slam Chavez for his actions (and for the record I would join you in condemning him for his actions) but you can not deny that he achieved power by majority vote and stays in power by majority vote.. a very democratic principle. Even the opposition accepts the election results as mostly fair.

    Personally I'd say what it needs to do is actually have a stronger federalism and role back the usurpation of power the feds have taken in the last 200 years.
    Not sure it is a good thing on some areas and with the acts and attitudes of some states legislative branches, then one must question if it is wise. After all, if some states had "more" power, then they would ban abortion in a heartbeat, ban homosexuality and so on. If it was not for the "feds" then the US would never have gotten rid of slavery. So yes, let locals run healthcare, taxes, police and so on, but when it comes to basic rights .. hell no.. you should not have different rights as an American just because you are in California and not in Montana. If you want such a system, dissolve the US and make 50 states.

    I am a pragmatist. If something can be better run locally then do it. If something can be better run on a national or state level, then run it there. I dont stick to any ideology based government structure and I am a firm believer that if a government run organisation can be run better and cheaper by private people, then do it, but that does not mean private is better than government all the time.. hardly.

    I am also a firm believer of being fair as possible. That means everyone is equal and given the same chance in life. If you take some legislative stuff to the local (state for example) instead of having the state (federal) write the law, then you risk having a country (provided you still think the US as a single country and not 50 small mini states) split along borders based on what states provide and allow. You can easily have in the US if the states got their way, half the country where being a homosexual is a crime. You can have places where the locals refuse to pay for education for hispanics, or blacks or other people. You can easily have states that think it is "good" to teach their children that the world is flat and god created it, and not teach the facts. Do you really want to live in a society that is that lopsided?
    PeteEU

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    Re: Chavez seeks indefinite re-election, again

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    Everyone sees he is a scumbag, or almost. The point however you are making that we, and I can only speak of course as a Briton myself here, should invade him for that.

    He is not the same as Hitler, Hitler was far more brutal and struck very quickly. You can't compare the fight over term limits with things like the enabling act. He is also unlikely to invade over countries, probably less likely than the US from where I'm sitting. Therefore it is certainly not our business to get involved in the affairs of his country and probably a bad thing for us and the world.
    I'm not saying we need to invade as much as I am saying UN needs to sanction Venesueala harshly until Chavez is out of power and all Russian naval units are back in Russian sea ports.

    Chavez is nothing more then Hitler in the making. We cannot allow the 3rd reich to rise again.

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    Re: Chavez seeks indefinite re-election, again

    Quote Originally Posted by Vader View Post
    I'm not saying we need to invade as much as I am saying UN needs to sanction Venesueala harshly until Chavez is out of power and all Russian naval units are back in Russian sea ports.

    Chavez is nothing more then Hitler in the making. We cannot allow the 3rd reich to rise again.
    U.N. sanctions for what? A Democratically decided event from his own country?

    You're paranoid on this one. You have an assumption of what he MIGHT do and you don't like it. That is not a reason for sanctions.

    If it were the U.S. would have had sanctions on it from countries that didn't like the things we have done.

  4. #64
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    Re: Chavez seeks indefinite re-election, again

    Are you saying that Chavez is good for the country?
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: Chavez seeks indefinite re-election, again

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Are you saying that Chavez is good for the country?
    I'm saying that if the majority of his country want to keep him in office and they democratically choose to do so, that is up to them to decide.

    I don't think Bush was good for our country, yet I wouldn't support the U.N. putting sanctions on the U.S. just because someone didn't like Bush in charge.

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    Re: Chavez seeks indefinite re-election, again

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    I'm saying that if the majority of his country want to keep him in office and they democratically choose to do so, that is up to them to decide.

    I don't think Bush was good for our country, yet I wouldn't support the U.N. putting sanctions on the U.S. just because someone didn't like Bush in charge.

    I am saying that Chavez is trying to become a dictator. People had the same misconceptions about Hitler back in 1931-32. They were proven correct. I do not want Chavez to have the chance to prove me correct.

    I do not want to see death camps all over Venezuela. I do not want to see the mistakes of WWII repeated because nobody bothered to learn anything from the many tragedies of WWII.

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    Re: Chavez seeks indefinite re-election, again

    Quote Originally Posted by Vader View Post
    I am saying that Chavez is trying to become a dictator.
    And that is your opinion, last I checked you don't know the future.

    You are guessing and you are wanting to overthrow an entire government based on your opinion. Sorry, but like I said before that is no reason for sanctions, or whatever.

    Simple fact is you don't know for sure and you don't know the future. Your hatred for Chavez is what is driving your opinion.

    When you come up with evidence other than your opinion, maybe it will hold water.

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    Re: Chavez seeks indefinite re-election, again

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    I'm saying that if the majority of his country want to keep him in office and they democratically choose to do so, that is up to them to decide.

    I don't think Bush was good for our country, yet I wouldn't support the U.N. putting sanctions on the U.S. just because someone didn't like Bush in charge.

    Your comparison is incorrect.

    Bush has never tried to be indefinately elected. Chavez has tried and failed once before and now he's trying again.

    There is a difference between Chavez's attempt to become a dictator of Venezuela.

    Guess what dude, Adolph Hitler was also elected .... RIGHT BEFORE HE BECAME A GENOCIDAL LUNATIC.

    I suggest you learn from history ... or blindness like yours will be responsible for the election of the next great dictator.

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    Re: Chavez seeks indefinite re-election, again

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    And that is your opinion, last I checked you don't know the future.

    You are guessing and you are wanting to overthrow an entire government based on your opinion. Sorry, but like I said before that is no reason for sanctions, or whatever.

    Simple fact is you don't know for sure and you don't know the future. Your hatred for Chavez is what is driving your opinion.

    When you come up with evidence other than your opinion, maybe it will hold water.
    The fact that the scumbag wants to be PERMANENTLY ELECTED is good evidence of his intent.

    Non-dictators have term limits and they readily accept that. Dictators do not want to give up power. They do whatever is necessary to stay in power. Even if that includes murdering their competition.

    Wake up and smell the freaking roses.

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    Re: Chavez seeks indefinite re-election, again

    Quote Originally Posted by Vader View Post
    The fact that the scumbag wants to be PERMANENTLY ELECTED is good evidence of his intent.
    Sorry but that isn't proof he is the next Hitler, like you try and spread fear of.

    And if his country wants that it is up to them, not you.

    Again, you have nothing but your paranoia and hatred for Chavez.

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